October, 1965. This is where your blogger spent his formative years from 1963 to 1970. I have had to scan as four overlapping sections. That's me in the fourth section (right hand end of the panorama). I am in the second row down, 13 from the left or 15 from the right.
We were assembled in a semicircle on the playground and the camera panned round. And nobody ran round from one end to the other to appear in the picture twice. Some time after I left, St. Mary's combined with St. Joseph's girls' grammar school in Abbey Wood to become co-educational. The school buildings visible behind us still stand, but extensions now cover the playground. The site is now occupied by St. Luke's sixth form college.
I shall not even attempt to put names to all the faces. It would take up too much space and I cannot remember everyone anyway. If you were there, you will have a good idea of who was who. If you were not, names will probably not mean much to you. But if you do have any questions about identities of the people in the picture, leave a comment or e-mail me and I'll see what I can do.
UPDATE 22 April 2019. I have added as a separate post these photos tagged with the names of those who were in the third year at the time. As time and available information permit, I hope to add other version.
UPDATE 4 August 2020. As you may know, former pupil Matt Eastley is writing a history of St. Mary's and there is now an accompanying website www.inomnibuslabora.co.uk. If you can contribute in any way, please visit the site and make contact.
251 comments:
1 – 200 of 251 Newer› Newest»Hi Phil,
Great to see this photo after all those years. I was a 2nd former and can see myself in the 3rd row behind the group of teachers which includes Messrs Pratt, Mukajee and further right to Lynch & Lawson.
Happy Days? not really as I wasn't the best pupil and not in any way sporty. I had some good friends though and memories to match.
With all the bad press the Catholic priesthood gets these days I always feel obliged to say that the ones who taught us were pretty fair, particulary the headmasters Howarth and later on Graystone.
Mind you I never was sure about how much Mugsy enjoyed caning boys!
Cheers
Mick
Hi Mick,
Sorry for not replying sooner. I hadn't set this blog up to send me e-mail notices when anyone posts comments. I was not particularly sporty either and tried to keep as far away from the ball as possible. Yes, Black Harry was an eminently reasonable man ("I quite see your point lads"). But Mugs was never exactly popular with the boys. Those days certainly did leave some indelible memories. I am still in contact with a few St. Mary's old boys and when we get together we inevitably find ourselves reliving some of the shared traumas. It's never long before someone does a Father Shortle impersonation. ("Hey! Some of you lads!")
Thanks for your comments. I may still unearth some further St. Mary's memorabilia and post it here.
Cheers,
Phil
Phil,
Chris Miller here - a few places to your left on the photo.
I agree on the Catholic Priest/Child Abuse front - never an issue. "Eric" and "Black Harry" were fine men- they were human, humane and fair. However Mick might remember being an unwilling participant in the Mugs multi caning because nobody would own up to putting on the noticeboard that "football is a Mugs game" - this followed the decision to abandon soccer in favour of rugby. This was in Howarth's days - Black Harry would never have permitted this totally pointless mass caning. I always assumed the noticeboard entry was made by a teacher.
This is wonderful nostalgia - thank you for your efforts
Hi Chris,
It's good to hear from you after all these years. In fact we have now reached the proverbial "Forty Years On."
It would be great to catch up with you. As I have mentioned, I am still in contact with a few old boys. (Not quite "old men" yet, but we're working on it.)
If you click on "View my profile" at the very bottom right of the page, that will take you to a link to my e-mail address.
Cheers,
Phil
I was an assitant teacher at ST gMary's Grammar School for Boys from September 1976 to July 1977. I need urgently a certicficate saying I was employed there . Who couold help me please? It is urgent
Many thanks
aesopus,
You could try
The sixth form college that now occupies the site
http://www.ctksfc.ac.uk/stmarys.php
The London Borough of Bexley
http://www.bexley.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1
or the archdiocese of Southwark
http://www.rcsouthwark.co.uk/index.html
Although after more than thirty years, it is possible that records no longer exist or are not easily accessible.
You could also try Friends Reunited
http://www.friendsreunited.co.uk/
although you would need to register. There is an entry for St. Mary's RC Grammar and you may be able to find someone who was there at the time and is willing to vouch for you.
Finally after years of playing on the rectangle of tarmac behind St Lawrence's Church, with the most smelly outdoor loo, they built a lovely new school. There are a few of the old boys listed on Friends United, wonder where many of the others are?
Seems that the cane still had a presence though.
Diddy
Doing some family research I discovered that my Great Uncle taught at this school. He was Father Eric Shorttle. As there is no-one around who can tell me much about him, if any of you have any memories you'd be willing to share I'd love to hear them.....good or bad!!
I believe he is in the photograph too, obviously one of the priests but if anyone can verify which one he is for sure I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks so much
Helen
Hi Helen,
Thanks for getting in touch. I'll try and come back with more later, but for now look at the third photo down. There is a group of four priests together. Left to right they are Fr. McKeown ("Mugsy" in the posts above), Fr. Howarth (then headmaster), Fr. Shorttle ("Eric" in Chris Miller's post) and Fr. Doonan. Have you had a look for St. Mary's on Friendsreunited? I'm sure you will find something there.
Cheers,
Phil
Correction to previous post. "Fr. Doonan" should read "Fr. Goonan".
Thanks Phil, I was pretty sure that was who it was, I have a photo of him about thirty years younger.....just needed someone to confirm my suspicion. Looked on the friends reunited site and they have the same photo, but will post to see if anyone happens to have anymore. So glad to have found your blog with the pic....thanks for sharing!!!
Father Shortle taught physics if I remember. I remember his classes in the First Year.
My most enduring memory was in the course of one of the few school journeys in the summer of 1964.
Frs. Shortle and Mackeown (Mugsy) led a school party of some 30 to the Ligurian riviera east of Genoa. The hotel for this party (first years to sixth form) was in Cavi di Lavagna. Mass on sunday was said by Fr Shortle in Sestri Levante by arrangement with the local parish priest. All Latin in those days, of course.
The journey through France by night sleeper to Basle was hauled by a a large and very impressive steam engine.
The two fathers must have taken a little 'refreshment' from duty free. I passed their compartment, looked in and was met by Fr Shortle's observation: "just a glass of milk!"
Even Mugsy lightened up on the trip, but reverted to type on return.
I seem to remember that the comment that was left on the notice board resulted in a mass handwriting test in an attempt to identify a culprit.
The sentence I remember having to write in class (a lesson was interrupted for this) was:
'Father McKeown thinks that football is a mug's game'.
All very bizarre.
I don't know if they ever got to the bottom of it.
Mugsy got me once. Quite unjustly, of course. I was just unlucky to be the first to be seen in a noisy room when he flung open the door!
If I remember rightly, the prefect who came to deliver the test could barely conceal a smirk about saying "Fr. McKeown" and "Mugs" in the same sentence to a class full of boys and their teacher.
Oh dear, I suppose someone had to be related to Father Shortle. He was not the most popular of teachers. He taught me physics but not very often. We were more likely to be taken from Physics class and made to lay out the chairs (well benches actually) for Mass. The main hall was multi-functional. face up it was a stage face back it was a chapel, face left it was a dinner hall and face right and there were the windows.
I actually learned most of my Physics from (Porky) Smith.
I got the cane from Father Shortle. It was on my very first day there when I was left to change into my plimsolls. Another boy whose name I remember but will not disclose, leapt on me and we started to fight, When Yorkie( Fr Shortle) came back he caned us both. He never bothered to ask what it was about or who started it. Great lessons in unfairness learned from Day 1. The other time was when Fr Howarth caned me because I was seen by a sneaky prefect up on the stage behind me, "Talking in Holy Mass" (the biggest sin you could commit it seems. In fact a boy behind me was picking the green umbro sticker off the bottom of said plimsolls and I merely turned round to tell him to stop it. Again Nobody worried about why I was talking. I did get the impression that caning boys was great sport for some teachers (Mainly priests it has to be said,
I remember the day some wag put a boiled egg in the salt pot on the stage where the Masters ate. Fr Howarth tried to shake some salt, found the egg and went BALLISTIC!.
Like the time he caned Etheridge in front of the whole school for chucking cider bottles out of the coach window after a trip to Aylesford Priory. Etheridge grinned the whole time (He had a gammy arm and seemed to feel no pain). Fr Howarth went red as a beet as he tried hard to make etheridge show pain.
We also had a handwriting test. Again it was Muggs who instigated it. This time because someone wrote F*ck to Muggs Mckeown on a list of history holiday reading that Muggs had put on the board. We all new the 2nd former who wrote it, but the whole lower school gladly did detention for a week rather than give up the lad who voiced what most of us felt.
Remember the habit teachers had of giving us "Lollys" which involved pinching the cheek hard between finger and thumb and leading the errant pupil painfully to kneel at the skirting ("Nose to the wall, boy") while the lad was subjected to a slippering. (Usually given with "yeti" Firth's plimsoll as he had size a zillion.)
Fr shortle was demoted from post as discipline master after he sent a boy reeling down the stairs after the lad came in late and seemed not to be too bothered. Yorkie had a fiery temper.
On the good side he and I worked in harmony building stage sets for many of the plays directed by Mr Jarvis. He was good at woodwork.
I remember once, when I was trying to evade sports ( us useless type who were no good at soccer or rugger, were made to run round Kent in the pouring ran and even had our hands stamped with the school stamp in indelible ink to prove we had run to the furthest point on the "Cross Country" run.
The way round this was to hide in the woods in the dry, and get back to school after everyone had gone home.
To be continued as this blog only allows 4096 characters
Part 2
One of my better wheezes as I was involved with the stage lighting with Szatkowski, was to climb up a ladder and hide in the stage roof reading a book while all the others ran around in the rain. Alas while I was up there, someone took the ladder away and it was 6PM when I tried to climb down one of the grey tab curtains and me and it all ended in a heap on the floor.
I hasten to add that I was really one of the good boys and rarely disobeyed authority but it was a harsh environment in many ways.
Of course there were some lovely teacher like Prissy Mr Lynch (poof) and Fr (pop) cassidy (who always smelled of Old Spice) and Doug Wingfield who pretended his Mother in law was locked in the front chemistry bench and would play a tape recording of her cries for help, which would get louder as he opened the door (which we could not see of course) and pretend to lash her back into place with a length of Bunsen burner tubing!.
I asked him once if I had the right method to make prussic acid at home (God knows what I wanted it for, maybe etching a PCB - I forget) But he took me firmly by the shoulder, led me to the store room, and presented me with a bottle of the acid. He said "this stuff is very dangerous, but not half as dangerous as trying to make it yourself is !" and I kid you not I departed with a ground glass bottle full of the stuff!
Mr Harding was a lovely man even though he gave me 2nd place in Woodwork to John O'Farrell.
I also remember the time we had done the experiment where you fill a syrup tin with coal gas and light it through the punched hole in the bottom, and when the reducing pressure in the tin as the gas burns away, finally cannot support the flame, the flame extinguishes, the air rushes in, and the lid of the tin pings off to a great height.
Someone who shall be nameless (It was probably Etheridge again, decides to go one better. One lunch time he fills a 50 gallon drum with gas and puts it on bricks and light the flame at the bottom. Eventually the drum explodes and we who were at lunch were treated to the sight of the drum flying past the windows!
Without going into what Jew Boy (Mr miles) and Mr Lynch, got up to in the Music room cupboard, (Nothing more than stocktaking I am sure but we loved to make something of it), I must end these ramblings. Once you get started the memories flood back, though I have to say, my schooldays were NOT the happiest of my life, but I would rather have the strict unfair regime we had back then when teachers were ither respect or feared and sometimes both, than what we have today where kids rule the roost and they know it. I would not like to be a teacher in today's schools.
Further info on St Mary's (circa 1963) here: at www.reddgate.co.uk including a school photo with as many names as I have been able to collect and some still waiting to be added/amended.
So in the unforgettable words of the school song .... er .. gosh I can't remember it, I can't even remember the school motto ( it might have be "in Omnibus Labora" Labour in all thing if Mr O'Niels Latin classes were effective. We used to say it meant "Do your homework on the bus" and many of us did. .... but not me. Oh no I was a GOOD boy!
and this was posted at 02:35 London time GMT
Yes, there were some pretty influential teachers. Harding set me off on lifetime of making stuff for fun and now, after teaching science and maths for 30 years, I run my own joinery business. Eccles and Jew Boy were my heroes.
I seem to remember that the wording on the notice board that caught the attention of TBTB was "Mugs is a cunt". That made St Mary's history. I had always regarded Mugs as merely the most evil entity in the universe but I will never forget the way in which, a few years after Mugs had left the scene, the mother of another boy told about his influence on her son. It was quite shocking to me at the time but of course now far too late for criminal proceedings.
There were certainly things we get up to that would be unimaginable in today's 'elf and safety led schools. Coating the chem lab floor with nitrogen tri-iodide so that it went bang-crackle-pop when anyone moved was a good one. And Graystone was a good sport to let Ned and me set up a fish tank in the entrance hall. It was just a ruse to be allowed to stay indoors at lunchtime.
From Steve Clark:
"All I can really recall about Fr Shorttle was his brilliant accent, the fact that he seldom emerged from behind that long raised counter of a teacher's bench that they had in the chemistry lab (a bit like the senators' bench in newsreels of the McCarthy hearings), and that he was actually a decent bloke who had a wry sense of humour and (I think) quite a liking for his students beneath a deliberately gruff exterior. As I gave up chemistry at the earliest opportunity (Year 3?) I didn't know him that well. I think I remember him umpiring at our cricket matches though. I imagine that being a Yorkshireman, cricket was his sport. Steve Dean will probably recall it better, as he was our cricketing star." [Actually his subject was physics, but it was all a long time ago. "Forty Years On" and all that.]
Now a few words from Steve Dean:
"I liked physics but he was an utterly useless teacher and I learned absolutely nothing during the time he taught us, I remember that when we had a double physics lesson he used the whole double period to attempt to set up practical experiments which to my memory (probably selective) always failed miserably and he used to go bright red in the face and say 'read it up in your books'. It didn’t help either the distraction of Phil, Chris Warren (bless his departed soul) and Tony Ryan sitting next to me sniggering at his repetitive comments and counting how many times he would say ‘Is that clear’ and ‘ Eh some of you lads’ and other things which slip my mind now but am sure Phil will elucidate.
"I don’t remember him as an Umpire and I was in the first eleven for cricket, have I blocked that out (ha no pun intended). I do remember him though as the deputy discipline master, Mugs being the prime source of mental and physical abuse. I seem to remember all the crap and silly things being at St Mary’s.
"I met Black Harry about 10 years ago, he was invited to say the requiem mass for a mutual friend and he came down from Walsingham where all the retired Priests lived. He remembered me after some prodding and said “ did you know Father Mc Keowan is still alive, I will remember you to him”. Horrified at the suggestion I thought fuck off I don’t want to fuel his deviant child abusing fantasies. I liked Black Harry though , he was a decent chap and one of the best priests there along with dear Father Murphy.
Totally digressed haven’t I !!!
"I remember when someone put a yard ruler in the strings of the piano in the hall before assembly and Father Howarth sat down to play it, my funniest memory, and he stormed out furious and Father Shorttle led the witch hunt for the culprit, ah those were the days."
Yorkie's other catchphrases included "of course" and "obviously" or even "of course obviously" and yes, we did sit there keeping a tally of how many times he used these expressions during a lesson, totally oblivious to what we were supposed to be learning.
Thanks everyone for sharing your recollections. I look back on St. Mary's now as part concentration camp, part circus; like some sort of weird dream only it actually happened. Those events must certainly have left indelible impressions on us, as even after all this time we still have stories that demand to be told. What I value above all else from those years is the abiding friendships that were forged.
Thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to share your memories! I knew absolutely nothing about my Great Uncle, other than he was a priest........this has helped to put a person to the face and filled a blank spot in the family tree. I am immensely grateful!
You're welcome Helen. In fact I think it has been quite therapeutic for us to tell our stories!
Hi to all,
My name is John Murrell and I taught English and Latin at St Marys from 1962-1965, my first post. I taught for the rest of my career in Herts, retired in 1998 and now live in Lisbon. I was friendly with Doug Wingfield[chem],Fred McAndrew [Maths, he died some years ago in a sheltered home],Michael Lynch,[History]and Peter Lawson[sport]. I remember vividly JJMc,Eric Shorttle,Pat Cassidy and Eric Howarth[who, I was told, died some years ago in a motor accident].What I do recall about the fathers was their ever generous hospitality at their house in Main Road, so utterly different from the priests who ran the school where I taught afterwards, who saw lay staff as a necessary evil! In 1962 I was form master of 1A and Ted Robinson looked after 1alpha. In 63,64 I took lower sixth arts. I remember Adrian Jarvis [English] Nevil Wilkinson[French] Terry Smith[Physics] Ron Hesketh [Geog],
Ernie Harding[Woodwork] Pratt [Art] and Miles [Biology, he was cataloguing brambles and sadly took his own life] and John O'Neill who later moved to Switzerland, the county of his wife.I have only passed the site once or twice since I left but often wondered what happened to those who were there when I was. Anyone remember me?
I certainly remember Mr Murrell, or "Mousy Murrell" as I think we used to call you. You are in the school photo here www.reddgate.co.uk and I guess some classes had you for Latin and other had Mr O'Niell who is sat next to you. I had Mr O'Niell so you were always the teacher of the other class to me. I knew Adrian Jarvis outside of school. He lived 100yds from my home and I played with his three kids. "The bears" as he used to call them. I remeber the shame of getting demoted from Mr Jarvis's English Lit class so that David Monk-Steel could move up. I also remember the bullying Mr Lawson who split a pile of class books and slammed them into my ears one day out on the field at lunch time. I can't remember what prompted it but it wasn't much.
You must tell how you came to end up in Lisbon!
Best Wishes David Reddington 1964 5 alpha (or was I 5a - I forget)
Hello Mr Murrell,
(Even after all this time, it somehow seems presumptuous to address a master in a more familiar manner.) I joined 1A in 1963 and left Upper Sixth Science in 1970. I think you were my first form master, but this must have been a temporary arrangement at the start of the year as Mr Kenny-Levick took us on later. I remember being in your class for English and Latin. You may also remember giving some tuition to a small handful of us who expressed an interest in learning Greek. There were three of us - me, Chris Warren (now sadly departed) and I believe the third was Allan White, now a prominent Dominican friar. Since this was extra curricular, we had to buy our own textbooks. I still have my copy of Nairn & Nairn's "Greek through Reading" (price 18/-). We didn't keep it up after you left,but I think I retained enough to recognise English words with Greek roots. I don't live far away from the old school - now extended and used as a sixth form college - and pass it quite often. I hope you are enjoying your retirement. Phil Mackie
bHow surprised I am that two former pupils still remember me!! I need to correct my original - it was not Eric but Fr.CHARLES Howarth who was Head. I recall he had a phenomenal appetite,always wishing the clear the dishes at the staff table on the stage, so one hesitated to say yes when asked -does anyone want any more? Yes I do remember the Greek scholars and sorry that I left you with your Nairns. That was, in fact, the reason why I left because I had the opportunity to teach Greek and with Latin, while Fr. Howarth felt it unlikely it could be added to the curriculum at St. Marys. If you are right about being in 1A in 1963 then I was not your Form Master; it took IA in 1962-3, then Lower Sixth Arts 1963-4. The new Mr. Kenny-Levick will have been in charge; he introduced Spanish.
I enjoy retirement and continue to read the classics!!
Regards to all JM
Mr Murrel,as the only master I have communicated with as an adult, I would love to know, - how did the other masters regard the nicknames we gave them? did they like to have one? Did they get upset by the sometimes cruel nature of the nickname?
I remember Poof (Mr Lynch), Jewboy (Mr Miles), Thick/Nosher (Mr Robinson), Little A (Mr O'Mahoney), Moomin (Fred McAndrew), Spike (Mr Wilkinson) Pop (Fr Cassidy), Porky (Mr Smith), Muggs (Fr McKeown) and Yorkie (Fr Shorttle)>
I wonder why some teachers never had a nickname. I gather someone was called Eccles but I don't know who that was.
Also regarding your surprise that former pupils remebered you, I would not be surprised if almost all pupils remembered almost all their teachers. We were in daily contact for 5 years or so and in my mind they all still look like they did when I was there. I would probably saddened to see the figures of my youth now old and a little the worse for wear. You are all effectively encased in amber in my mind, frozen in time and reinforced by perusing old school photgraphs.
And I still want to know how you ended up in Lisbon ! :-)
David
Eccles was Mr McGlaughlin (sp?), the geography teacher. I don't think he was the most well respected teacher generally but I got on with him well and as a result studied geography and geology A level and went on to read geology at uni. He was the one who inspired me most, taught me to think rationally and logically for myself and not to accept things as true without evidence.
I'm pretty good at writing English and appreciate the value of literature. I guess Mr Murrel bears some of the responsibility for that. :)
Chris Miller back
I remember Mr Murrell very well - brown tweed jacket, his university tie, lit pipe and a cream jumper wrapped round his waist whilst umpiring cricket matches.
My other memory is spending half the week of a field trip to Pitlochry fretting about what would happen to us when the principal of the field centre got upset because we all sneaked out to the pub one night. He vowed to report us to our school. Perceiving this to be a not auspicious start to our spells as Deputy Head Boy and Head Boy respectively, Patrick Dunleavy and I decided to get in first and confess our offences to Fr Graystone immediately on our return.
He just laughed - that says all you need to know about Black Harry.
Phil - what happened to poor Otto?
Agree with Biff about Eccles - nice man, inspirational but let a few get away with too much so that he came over as chaotic.
The other memory I have of Eric/Yorkie which might appeal to Helen reflected the days when it was unusual not to smoke rather than the other way round as - thankfully - is the position today. I think Fr Graystone was on a retreat or similar so Eric lorded it in the Head's office for a week or so. I would go in there occasionally during school hours on routine business - Eric always got the fags out - Players Navy Cut untipped.
Lawson - now there's a name to conjure with. Used to pick on the weakest - who remembers him chasing Thomas Collins round the gym and throwing medicine balls at him?
I wooped with unbridled joy in 2000 when I read in the Times that he'd been sent to prison - see http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/325380.harry_carpenter_dies_aged_84/ (strange link description this but don't be put off) - I pictured him strutting round the exercise yard wearing his purple Loughborough College track suit - that's one for Tom Collins whose life was made miserable by a bully.
More to come later
That is heartening news about Mr Lawson!
I hear Professor Dunleavy on the radio from time to time but what became of Tom?
Not sure about Tom - can't remember now whether he went into the 6th Form - suspect not
Good to hear from you again Chris. First a couple of "what happened to"s.
Otto (Chris Warren) had been one of my closest friends at St. Mary's but alas I didn't see much of him afterwards. After leaving St. Mary's he had a year doing voluntary service in Scotland. He lived in Nottingham for a while; diverse reasons found a lot of St. Mary's old boys in Nottingham in the early 1970s. Then his travels took him ever further afield and he ended up in Thailand teaching English. Otto had a reclusive side and even those who made determined efforts to stay in touch found him elusive at times. Ned Wilmore's son Ciarin finally caught up with him. But by then he was not in the best of health, suffering from emphysema amongst other things. (You will remember he was quite a heavy smoker and at one time was reduced to selling off his LP collection to finance his habit). Then one day in 2007 I had a call from Steve Dean telling me that Chris had died on 13 May.
Do you remember the jam session the three of us had at Chris's place on Rochester Way? We were quite pleased with ourselves and Chris taped it. But sadly the recording was overwritten. I think I have some recordings of Chris and I stashed in a box in the loft, but I doubt if my old reel-to-reel player is still in working order. As a musician I have never amounted to more than a three-chord trickster, but Chris could get a tune out of anything.
Tom Collins did stay on in the sixth form and like a few of us probably spent far too much time playing bridge in the common room. He scraped a place at Manchester University reading chemistry, but left after the first year. He hadn't managed to get a grant and his parents were not exactly wealthy. (For the benefit of any younger readers, this was all a long time before student loans.) I kept in contact with him for quite a while after we left school. During the 1970s we were both regulars at the Crown in Chislehurst. But it's fair to say that Tom always marched to a different drummer. Without wishing to "talk out of school" or say more than I really know, it became apparent that Tom found life very challenging. He had difficulty holding down even simple jobs and gradually I saw less and less of him. By the mid 1980s we were doing little more than exchanging Christmas cards, but eventually even they stopped.
After some not entirely cheerful reminiscences about a couple of former classmates, I'll try to lighten the mood with an anecdote.
Firstly, I'm sure my contemporaries will remember our classmate Chris Allen, a bit of a cheeky lad much given to innuendo and salty humour. And you will remember the debating society that met occasionally in the library. One evening we had a spot debate session, where participants were given a case to argue - some serious, some frivolous - with little or no time to prepare. Our two physics masters, Terrence Smith and Father Skillern, took opposing sides on the motion "All TV corrupts but ITV corrupts absolutely." Father Skillern chose to propose the motion and was on his feet. "We all know about corruption...". Then the library door opened and all eyes turned to see Chris Allen walk in with a big grin on his face. Taking his cue from this, Father S continued "... it comes in through any door while we are not looking."
I did exchange a couple of e-mails with Otto about a decade ago when he was in Thailand but then he didn't respond. Remember when he bought a sitar and we used to do Incredible String Band numbers :)
I do hope Tom is well somewhere. I'm sure he is one of the less harmful people on the planet. The trouble with a name like his, there's not much hope of finding him on t'interweb. "tom collins" gets a million google hits.
Yes I certainly remember the sitar. And the last gig played by our old schoolboy band at the Grove Folk Club, St. Benet's Church in Abbey Wood. It was you, me, Chris, Mick Morgan and Keith Gardiner. Keith has reminded me that the band's working title was "The Late Chris Miller". (No disrepect Mr. M. We weren't anticipating your untimely demise. I think we intended you to be part of the proceedings but you were unable to attend a rehearsal.) If I remember rightly, the reportoire included "Three is a Green Crown", "A Very Cellular Song" (whatever were we thinking of to tackle that one?), a 12-bar blues jam, "The Leaving of Liverpool" and, I think, "Log Cabin Home in the Sky". Headline act was the Southern Ramblers, a popular and quite entertaining local bluegrass ensemble. But that night I think we blew them off the stage. As is always the way with groups, ours worked best just before it was gone forever. After that night, the five of us were never in the same room together. And after a couple of months I don't think we were ever all in the same county.
For those interested and anyone who took part in the production of A Midsummer night's dream in (I think) 1964, here is the Kentish times picture and revue.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38457031/Midsummer%20Nights%20Dream%20St%20Marys%201964.jpg
and
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38457031/Midsummer%20Nights%20Dream%20text%20St%20Marys%201964.jpg
You will have to copy these URLs into your browser.
Note that even though it looks truncated, if you copy the whole line and paste it into the browser, you will get there!
The play was produced by Adrian Jarvis, with the help of several of the other teachers.
I remember I donated my Golden Lumar Yo-Yo to puck who used it from his perch in the tree when he was spouting on about doing something with a girdle round the earth 'ere the leviathan can swim a league.
I thoroughly enjoyed the annual plays and got involved in the carpentry, stage management as well as lighting and sound with Neville Wilkinson.
I also remember the time we had a recording of a harpsichord that played while one of the boys sang along.
One day the Phillips reel-to-reel tape machine decided to wrap the tape around the pinch wheel and so the actor had to sing unaccompanied, which he did marvellously. I can't remember who it was now.
I have fond memories of the past production photographs which were placed on the walls of the main stairwell.
I also remember my mother who always came with my dad to watch the plays I was part of, being carried up the 3 flights of stairs in a chair by two hunky sixth-formers like lady muck.
She had a hole in the heart and could not manage to climb the stairs. I think she used to look forward to her queen-like carriage up the stairs
David,
Thanks for this. I think it's a bit earlier than 1964; I'd say 1963 at the latest as I joined St. Mary's in September that year and it was before my time. Choreography by Edward Robinson sounds interesting - I would never have associated our games master with the terpsichorean arts. I remember the photos of past productions giving a glimpse back to a much earlier St. Mary's. The older ones were eventually thinned out to two-per-frame to make way for later productions. I would hope they still survive somewhere; it would be fascinating to see them again. (I can still remember one of Steve Clark and John Escott looking very sweet in drag as Antigone and Ismene. I know Steve's son and daughter would be highly amused to see him in this guise.)
Somewhere at home I know I have a set of programmes for the plays from 1964 to 1970. They must have boxed up with a load of other junk when I moved house and they have yet to surface. I'll keep looking and post them her if I find them. As well as Oedipus I recall The Imaginary Invalid, School for Scandal, Macbeth and Muder in the Cathedral.
Hello All
Another shot of nostalgia to keep me going.
David seems to speak fondly of Jarvis - rightly so.
A complete eccentric in the nicest possible way.
Once he took great delight in telling us about a gaff in a history essay which he claimed was genuine:-
"The Egyptians raped their dead in bandages so they became mummies".
He liked his pupils to have nicknames - guess who these are:-
"The pen of my aunt is in the pocket of the..............."
"Windy.............."
" W. .................. Dalby"
One more - he didn't like use of the term " due to" - every time someone uttered it, he retorted " ahhh - Due 2 - colleague of Due 3 - of the Israeli Secret Service"
A nice and talented man.
Good to hear mention of Steve Clark and John Escott notwithstanding their extra curricular activities recorded in the series of school play photos which lined the staircases.
Brilliant memory Phil! You're correct about the timing - we started in 1963 - at that time, all pupils had to change their shoes for plimsoles every day for fear of marking the Hall floor with outdoor shoes. "Spud" Murphy, the caretaker, was not a happy man when the rule was abolished in time for snow, sludge and rock salt when we returned to school after Christmas.
I'd forgotten all about Mr Robinson - affectionately known as "Thick" - he was my first Form Master - and I suspect that a namesake rather than him would have been potential for "Strictly Come Dancing".
Who recalls Grealish - he's in the photo - he was our Form Master in - I think - 1964. Need to be careful what I say but 2 incidents occur:-
1. The very first sentence he uttered when introducing himself to his new charges in Form 2 went " Who bites their nails? I used to bite mine but no longer - you won't get on if you bite your nails"
2. During one of the usual fractious French lessons - which once featured Brian Rostron climbing onto a desk and threatening to "flatten" said Grealish - "Spike" Wilkinson burst into the room and demanded that Grealish leave the room immediately.
Decent bloke Spike - probably in the wrong age because he used the slipper a bit too much - but once when playing football on the field opposite after school at 5.30pm, I dislocated my elbow. Very painful and traumatic - assistance was called for - Spike arrived, took me to the hospital and waited 'til my Mum arrived.He still waited to establish the outcome and then drove Mum and me home to the other side of Orpington. That was beyond the call - he won't have got home 'til 10.
That's enough for now - I need to pace myself!!
Ah, "The Late Chris Miller". Possibly the peak of my career as a performing artist. It's been downhill ever since. Where's Adolf?
No doubt continuing to enjoy that Bavarian smoked cheese shaped like a small sausage which today we eat as a matter of course but which then we had never seen before. At break time, we quaffed 1/3 pint bottles of curdled milk with our greaseproof wrapped cold toast or tuck shop purchases doughnuts whilst Adolph ate what his mother supplied daily.
Now you mention it I remember Adolf and the Bavarian smoked cheese. I've got a mobile number for him but I haven't spoken to him for a few years. Must try and make contact again. Last heard of he was living somewhere on the Kent coast.
Of course I remember Mr Grealish. He took us for Latin. I can still hear him saying "Vercingetorix" and some grammatical rule about "primary follows primary and historic follows historic" - not that I understood it. I've just done a Google search for him and found him in a Facebook entry under the heading "Most Eccentric Teacher". I'm at work at the moment so cannot access FB - my masters have some bizarre notion that I'm supposed to be doing the job I'm paid for and not wasting time on social networking sites - but will have a look when I get home. The fragment I can read looks like it was written by someone who was there at the time.
Spike - "Size 14 anybody?".
On a separate subject, I mentioned the Southern Ramblers in a previous post. For those who remember them, have a look at this http://tzorafolk.com/ramblers/index.html
Hello everyone,
Chris, I remember Rory Grealish as well as I remember anyone from those days. As an escapee from Joe's Jail House, (I made it over the wire one year later than Dec Dunne and Kieth Gardiner) I joined in the third year. Mr. Grealish was form master and somehow discovered, while checking the register on the first day, that I had been to school in Ireland until three years previously.
He began firing questions at me in Gaelic. Now, While not fluent, I was far more proficent in that language than in Latin or French. The questions were of a fairly basic type, relating to age, place of birth etc. and I was well up to answering them. But I was a very shy and self conscious young man with a serious blushing habit and not about to speak Gaelic in front of my new class mates.
Eliciting no response from me except, perhaps, a slight reddening of the cheeks, he informed me that I was not really Grammar school material. There was,and still is, far more damning evidence of my stupidity than a reluctance to converse in Gaelic but Grealish's mind worked in mysterious ways.
To compound my discomfort, my name wasn't on the register and he reacted to this by giving me detailed directions to some other school in the area, to which I should remove myself without delay.
Thus, he made an enemy of someone not noted for having enemies and he must have antagonised much of our class and others, member by member, because my impression is that we pretty well hounded him out of the job.
Yet, I believe he was a pretty decent bloke, who liked most of us and wanted us to reciprocate.
Things reached a nadir when, during one of those mock elections which were held to coincide with the real thing, sixth formers put up posters bearing the slogan "Don't be a Rory, Vote Tory."
These things shouldn't have happened.
Mr Grealish turned up shortly, after leaving St Mary's,across the road, in Sidcup Place, where he looked after the tennis courts and other facilities.
Correct me someone if I am wrong.
I sincerely hope his life took a turn for the better afterwards
Charlie Joyce
Ah, Rory. Ned and I wrote something rather rude about him on a desk using a permanent marker. We got six of the best and had to clean the graffiti off. That was quite a challenge for our chemical expertise but we, er, procured a bottle of acetone and added various detergents for good measure. Turned out a very clean desk.
Hello Charlie - forgotten you too had gone over the fence from Joe's Jailhouse as it was affectionately know.
Yes - I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of Grealish - he clashed with a few too many - both pupils and colleagues - to make his staying there realistic. What I hadn't known was that he arrived at St Mary's from that bastion of private education Bishop Challinor School of Shortlands.
What are you up to these days? Where are you living etc - if you don't want go public, email addresses are somewhere here.
Best wishes all
Hmmm...I went to Bishop Challoner Junior before St. Mary's.
Hello Phil, Biff, Chris et all.
Chris, I have no idea how to locate your e-mail address on this blog but it would be good to exchange news etc.
Phil has my e-mail address, if he is not already overwhelmed.
What a treasure is Phil's blog!
I will just mention one other teacher before leaving (I fear addiction: perhaps turning sixty has something to do with).
Has the name Pomfret (Mr. McMahon) graced the blog yet? I met him in Dublin c1980 when I was managing a pub. As soon as I identified myself to him, he asked me how I did in my English o-level. He had been working for a few years in the Middle East.
like your web-site Biff
CJ
Yep - sorry Biff - you went onto better things!
I remember Pomfret - shocking acne (poor bloke) - but a reasonable sense of humour.
I reckon he arrived at the same time the Latin teacher who's name eludes me other than his nickname - Creep - pretty appropriate I recall.
A fair smattering of us got into trouble because at every opportunity - passing him in a corridor, as he entered the room, in the yard - we would mutter "creep, creep, creep" at a volume sure to be audible but difficult to attribute to any individual. Poor bloke - must have driven him mad.
Thus the Law of Mugs was brought into play - identify a group, assume guilt (justified in my case) and - in the immortal words of Mr Muckerjee "I slash you just now"!
Sorry about this - compelled to commit to the ether when I think of it - what about "Ron" Hesketh?
Officer class, impeccable coiffure and seemed to renew his raffish Sunbeam Rapier annually.
All of this said affectionately because he was an excellent teacher and knowledgeable man - never a man to cross - he ruled quietly and by respect.
Sometimes had trouble hiding his disdain for the antics of Mugs who - I conjecture - he held in the highest disrespect.
Probably less well known was Mr Ribbins - took a select group - including Professor Dunleavy - for history A-level.
Deliberately gloried in a well cultivated dourness but a clever and inspirational teacher who, in debate, met his match in the said Professor.
3 memories of Ribbins:-
1. A flourishing beard
2. The man who taught us that the term "reactionary" meant not "leftie" but, actually "righty" since it meant "reaction" to change.
3. The subject of many an argument at the time with my Dad who - a hard working factory foreman and kind man from Poplar - thought had unduly influenced me to my socialist leanings.
We'll run out of characters soon!
I feel the urge to share another memory.
I was always keen on stage lighting and eventually Lech Szatkowski (I am bound to have spelt that wrongly) who was in the sixth form took me under his wing and allowed me to get involved with stage lighting. I was always keen to power up the massive green dimmer board that sat stage left. On one occasion we were preparing for one of St Mary's renowned new years parties and various bods were up in the roof suspending speakers borrowed from the classrooms so they dangled down the back wall over the sliding doors that hid the altar.
Alas one of the lanterns would not have passed today's PAT tests for some bare live wire was exposed and this was in contact with the metalwork that comprised the roof supports. I flung the fader full on to illuminate the lantern and there were simultaneous scream from various fifth and sixth formers up in the roof as they received a fair level of electric shock and as a result, several pairs of legs burst through the ceiling panels and continued to waggle until I very quickly returned the fader to the zero mark and killed the juice travelling through the roof.
I am amazed it did not blow a fuse, for the metalwork in the roof should certainly have been bonded to earth, but quite obviously wasn't!
And who remembers the dance we had where the cieling of the hall was covered with masses of threads spanning the hall onto which were threaded about 30-40 folded squares of paper that glowed under ultra-violet light. We fixed about 6 UV lamps to iether side of the hall flooding the cieling and the effect was to create a starfield of dots of glowing light that enhanced the mood of the party no end. Any stray UV light also had the effect of making the ladies white blouses look a little see through, but that was just a bonus!
In those days I could fill the whole hall with sound using the 3 watt output of my Elizabethan LZ-29 tape machine feeding the massive pair of FANE 15" speakers either side of the stage.
David Reddington
I ended up getting on quite well with Ron - A'level Geography - and he sometimes gave me a lift towards home as far as Bromley in his Ford Capri. He got that when I was in the upper sixth.
Rory Grealish. The "Most Eccentric Teacher" Facebook post I mentioned earlier was written by a former pupil at Bishop Challoner so I am not inclined to quote it in full here. But it mentions that Mr G's shoes always had holes in and allegedly he had got into trouble at St. Mary's for confiscating sweets from pupils then eating them himself.
Pomfret. I've mentioned this to one or two of you outside this forum, but who remembers why we would utter "twenty pounds" when he was in earshot? If you do, that should also bring back memories of our bizarre Spanish teacher Hippolito Mendeville. "Maximum respect" (as the kids today might say) to Dec Dunne for standing up to Mendeville when he set about Paul Laskier.
Creeper. This was Mr Philip Smith, Latin and classics master. If I remember rightly, he had somewhat uneven shoulders which prompted the nickname. Boys could be very cruel.
Ron Hesketh. Like Yorkie, Ron had his catchphrases: "tremendous", "enormous" etc. Or once when he caught me smirking "I don't use these words to be humorous Mackie!"
Peter M St. John Ribbins. He never taught me. But married Maureen Shoebridge, who taught chemistry at St. Mary's for a while. One of the pupils was a cousin of hers, but I can't remember who.
School dances. David, I think these were only attended by sixth formers, so my cohort would probably have been to young for the one you mention. But listening to your exploits, the saying "Health & Safety would have a field day" comes to mind. At our sixth form dance there was live music and one of our ad hoc schoolboy bands - me, Otto, Marek Milik and a couple of his cronies - played during the interval. We had had only a brief rehearsal, minus the drummer, the night before. So we hadn't all played together until we were on stage in front of an audience. The drummer was totally incompetent (he didn't even have his own kit - we had a last minute dash to John Spice's music shop to hire one for him) and the performance was a shambles. Chris, I believe you organised this dance and you brought an end to the debacle by cutting the power.
I'll sign off for now - but I'm sure I'll be back later. But for a closing line that might prompt more recollections "I do not wish to be known as Batman".
Yep - "Batman" - music teacher so called because he would not be seen anywhere without his gown.
He invited Fabian Goody and me to "tea" one Sunday. Our respective mothers accompanied us to his flat and, before they left, gave him the sort of look which made it clear that if he got up to anything, there would be substantial trouble.
He behaved impeccably and I don't believe there was ever any danger of what they feared.
He was a briliant musician who assembled and coached a school choir which undertook a number of stunning performances on tour at Christmas one year.
Pity Phil has mentioned that concert - it was equally stunning but in a different kind of way - stunningly incompetent I would say. Otto and Phil did their best but I suspect even they didn't have their hearts in it. I recall Marek was wearing a Hendrix style Fedora - this sartorial panache outshone his abilities on the fretboard. His efforts along with those of the drumless drummer created a such a cacophony that there was little option but to pull the one plug which powered the various amps and PA.
Yorkie - there for the night to oversee events - let slip within my earshot not realising I was so close "Miller's buggered it up this time" a sentiment with which I was obliged to disagree. My action was a service to music in general and to those that fled the dance floor as soon as the band fired up in particular.
There! After nearly 40 years this blog has enabled me to bare my soul.
Phil,
I have just remembered a young priest who taught us physics in the upper sixth. He was a newcomer and very popular, I think. He had an unfortunate tendency to redden when in the presence of a young female - possibly trainee - teacher who we called "Chestnuts" for obvious reasons. As you say, we weren't always kind with our nicknames.
You seem to be equal to every challenge we set your memory. And I cannot get close to remembering his name.
Fr Skillen
....this is pretty sad - he was a great bloke http://middlesbrough-diocese.org.uk/archives/1118
Phil has spoken about him before - the debate in the library when Chris Allen entered.
Chris, a most interesting contribution , which I hadn't seen when making my own, un signed, entry. I am sure many of us remember that school dance. I was close to the stage when you pulled the plug. A member of the band (obviously not Phil or Otto) said "shows you know nothing about music," to which you replied appropiately. Very funny about Yorky , though. Charles (previously always and often still known as Charlie) Joyce
I feel I must just mention, before going, that I was slower on the draw than you, once more, Chris. I saw Phil's earlier mention but had failed to make the connection. Sounds like a remarkable man and it is, as you say, very sad to read of his death.
Charles. Just a quick one (for now anyway) could "Chestnuts" have been Maureen Shoebridge, the future Mrs Ribbins? I can't think of anyone else who fits the bill.
Yes, Phil, after a few moments of deep concentration, I believe you are right. I hope I am not the only person whose memory is so inferior to yours. Charles
Worrying is this - I can't remember Chestnuts at all - please post a few clues to trigger the Miller archive - she must have been there otherwise you lot wouldn't have known her
Chris,I cannot really help you here. Hope you haven't been holding your breath or, I fear, this comment may be too little too late but do you recall a small group of us clearing up the hall, presumably after said dance and someone priestly providing you with funds afterwards so that we could refresh ourselves in a pub in the High Street (The Black Horse?)? could I have imagined this? Hello Phil. CJ
Chris,I cannot really help you here. Hope you haven't been holding your breath or, I fear, this comment may be too little too late but do you recall a small group of us clearing up the hall, presumably after said dance and someone priestly providing you with funds afterwards so that we could refresh ourselves in a pub in the High Street (The Black Horse?)? could I have imagined this? Hello Phil. CJ
Charles,
I don't remember being in the Black Horse after the "dance" but the suggestion that cash was authorised by a priest - it must have been Yorkie - does have some resonance.
The significance of the Black Horse to me is that Lawson's successor Thomas ordained it as the meeting place prior to Saturday inter school rugby matches.
Thomas was a tremendous bloke - knew how to manage 17 year olds - combination of indulgence with sufficient "distance"
I remember the clear up as taking place on a weekend morning. So a lunchtime pint.
I went to Pete Stickels' 60th birthday celebrations at the weekend. Whilst there, I met an old friend of ours from way back. She was at the dance and remembers that Steve Dean was the vocalist in this diabolical ensemble. I'm sure he will be grateful to me for putting this on record.
From Steve Dean
Hi phil , yes am grateful indeed for including me in the band's line up. My recollection of that evening is as has generally been described and yet within that cacophony the beautiful lines of Chris Warren's blues guitar was what I followed and sang too and shut out the rest were possible.
Chris was a musician's musician, such talent and ability. awesome.
I remember while I was singing there was a throng of girls from Holy Trinity gathered in front of me like groupies,quite disconcerting but extremely flattering,and they were very disappointed when the plug was pulled, the fact that we were awful didn't matter to them one iota.......
>a throng of girls from Holy Trinity
Anita Tyrell, Frankie Gilbert, Tessa Gilsennan (became Wilmore) et al.
Guten abend Adolf here, mit der Bavarian smoked cheese!Just a few extra memories for you all. I think Spike was our 1st form master. Eccles was the other geography master and Ribbins nick name was Sinjun, he taught us brit con, me, Steve Dean, Keggy Escott and Dennis Michelin ( who remembers him? ), and I think Prof Dunleavy.
Father Howard was Frankie, he and Paddy Goonan took me back home from choral concert in Orpington when my old mans car broke down. All the way to Abbey Wood at 11.00 at night, above the call of duty there.
Mr Reid (Arnold) was music master after that waste of space Senior, Arnold started me on improvisation, after I went up to practice in the music room and found him working on one of his own jazz compositions. Batman was also a very big influence, his choir was excellent.
Anybody else remember the man who fell off the roof? We were having an English class in room 7 with either Pomfret or Paddy and a work man fell off the roof. Ben (Fr Trueman gave him the last rites while we all looked on.
Ben, there was another Master who inspired some of us, his plays ("zarbie Bill Rawle and I did stage management) plus the jazz concert with Mike Westbrook and Betty Mulcair.
Saw Uncle Phil Mackie recently and reminded him of the incident with the dolls house bog! I am sure he would be happy for me to expand on this.
Have lots more in the ancient brain, but have to go now and finish some arrangements for a play that is being set to music, musicians work late, but the bonus is we get up late!!!
Wir farhen in gegen engerland!
Adolf.
Hi all,
Was at St Mary's from 1959 to 1965 when I gladly left to work for British Railways Southern Region. Does anyone remember Robert Sherlaw Johnson? He tried to teach us music but his Wikipedia entry doesn't mention St Mary's. He must have been there until about 1961 as he was teaching in Leeds from then on.
Gerry (Gerald Newnham)
Hi Gerry,
Good to hear from you. I was at St. Mary's from 1963 to 1970 so I'm afraid I don't remember the music teacher you mention.
Have you seen David Reddington's 1963 school photo http://www.reddgate.co.uk/St%20Marys2.html
After a year or so at Woolwich Arsenal trying to be a chemist, I too joined British Rail in 1972, initially with the Stores Controller's Department at Southern House, Croydon. I moved to ER at King's Cross in 1979 and spent five years travelling around East Anglia counting nuts, bolts, fuses, sleepers - just about anything that didn't move. I went back to Croydon in the Civils in 1985. My bit of the railway was sold in 1995 to WS Atkins. I am still working for them now in the "threepenny bit" building.
All,
I have just found some archive photos of Oedipus lying around on the internet. I shall make a new post, rather than add to the growing list of comments here.
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil
I'm Jerry (Jeremy) Fowler and remember many of the faces, names and events on this blog. Quite a trip down memory lane, with lots on 'Mugs' McKeown.
I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your blog and studying the photos. Great work!
I remember locking Grealish in the store cupboard, putting the blackboard rubber up on the light out of Little Arthur's reach. Swan Vestas in the chalk. There was the day I hit Bill Crampton with a discus during sports practice. That was scary, fortunately he survived. I think some time was used for study!
Hope life is treating you well. Good health,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Good to hear from you. 40+ years on, the old school obviously still exerts a powerful influence on former inmates. I dare say a few more will drop by soon.
Phil
Whilst browsing the Bexley archives for photos of past school shows I came across this one with yours truly still in the shot in school uniform. These days I would have been cropped out! The play was oedipus with Roy Cecil in the lead.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38457031/oedipus6%20with%20me.jpg
Hi Phil, bloody hell, what a brillian t blog. I´m Tim Mahoney and along with Declan Dunne, Keith Gardiner and Richard Maley, was one of the four that joined St Mary´s in the second year from St Joseph´s in Orpington. I´m not sure if I´ll be remembered as I think I kept a relatively low profile but certainly remember all the incidents and characters described by our fellow pupils. I remember Chris Miller showing me how to wear my tie with the top button on my shirt undone so I didn´t look a complete knob, and Biff Vernon I remember raving about the music of Bob Dylan. In June 1967 Jerry Fowler had I think one of the first copies of Segeant Peppers which he played to an appreciative audience in the artroom one lunchtime. I think in our class there were also two Kevin Goode´s, one with an "E" and one without. The one with the "E" I remember used to give away small Hovis loaves at morning break time. I was pals with David Costello, Kevin McGurran, Malcolm Haley and Mick Morgan and occasionally wonder what life brought to them. While my time at St Mary´s wasn´t the best of my life, I do feel I received a good education and it certainly held me in good stead during my working years. I didn´t make it into the sixth form and wonder where I would be now had I gone to University. As it stands, I discovered in my early twenties that I was a bit of an entrepeneur and have had a fairly adventurous life. I now live in a fairly remote and mountainous region of southern Catalunya (Spain) where I have an olive farm. I would be intrigued to know how life has treated you guys, well I hope.Again, well done on this blog, it made for some memorable reading. Kind regards, Tim.
Hi Tim,
Good to hear from you after all this time. That's you standing immediately above Mr Harding, isn't it?
I don't think my contemporaries have any "happiest days of your life/never did me any harm etc." type nostalgia for St. Mary's. But the old place certainly has a long reach extending more than 40 years. It certainly wasn't all beer and skittles back then. But as you say, it did give us an education. And there is still quite a strong bond amongst the old boys. I have stayed in touch with a few former classmates and still see some regularly - Steve Clark, Steve Dean and Pete Stickels in particular. When we get together, it's not long before St. Mary's raises it's head in some shape or form.
You mention Chris Miller, Biff Vernon, Jerry Fowler and Mick Morgan. You will see they have all contributed, Mick using the soubriquet "Adolf". I hadn't seen him for a while as he now lives on the Kent coast, but we met up earlier this year to help him celebrate 60 glorious years. (Naturally there have been quite a few 60th birthday parties during the past year.)
Wasn't the Kevin Goode you mention a tousle-haired lad with glasses who lived in Gravesend? That's him in the left hand picture, between "Jose" Pete and Geoff Howard. He was nicknamed Bo. I don't remember a Kevin Good without an E, but there was Fabian Goody.
I haven't travelled nearly as far as you - I've ended up just a few miles away from St. Mary's.
If you have any more memories of St. Mary's, please feel free to share them here - but nothing (too) libellous.
Cheers,
Phil
It was Killer (not) Johnson very nervous bullied music teacher!
Hi Phil, Tim Mahoney here again. my sincere apologies for taking so long to acknowledge your prompt reply, October and November have been pretty hectic as it´s the olive picking season. Yes that´s skinny me above Mr Harding, I´m lucky enough to still have a full head of hair although it had pretty much gone white by my mid thirties, I guess all brought on by the stress and excitement of life. I don´t seem to have the same memories as some of you with regard to music classes, I think I found it all a bit old fashioned, I was desperate for things to become modern. I do remember well the art classes with Mr Pratt, one of my favourite teachers. He always seemed tolerant and patient and encouraged me to design stuff and follow my own ideas. In my forties, God that sounds weird, I became a bit of a designer and with my Company, worked on new lighting products with the likes of Phillips, Hewlett Packard and ICI which was pretty cool. I don´t know what the protocol is with old school blog sites and whether it is not the done thing to discuss one´s life or whether one should just stick to old school memories, so I won´t ramble on too much. I shall end by bringing up school dinners, something I never did as they were too good. I think Jamie Oliver would have been impressed with the food we were given. Anybody remember Gypsy Tart and the iced buns at mid morning break.Hope you all keep warm this winter. Tim.
Hi again Tim,
Yes it does sound weird talking about one's forties and realising that those years are long now gone.
As long as it's not likely to land anyone in court, people can say what they choose here. It's not even really an old school blog - just one entry in a blog about all sorts of other things.
I wasn't too keen on gypsy tart (what exactly went into it?), but all things considered, the dinners were OK. But it prompts a memory of my dear departed friend Chris Warren. One day we had rice pudding or something similar for pudding. Chris announced that "extreme unction is the annointing of the sick" then made the sign of the cross over his desert.
I didn't like the dinners. I ended up pinching a large piece of bread and some fruit or a handful of raisins from the kitchen, eating that at school and pocketing the dinner money, with form master registering me as 'sandwiches'.
I stumbled across your blog while supposed to be preparing some management accounts... Fascinating stuff about St Marys GS - I was there 10 years after you but many of the teachers were still there. Your memories suggest halcyon days and I rather suspect most were past their sell-by dates and generally ground down by it all. I had searched on 'Black Harry' just for no particular reason other than it flashed across some grey cells. The nicknames of those who were still there in the seventies were presumably thought up by you guys and that alone puts a missing piece of jigsaw into place. Fr Graystone was there as head in '73 though he was a more serious character by then. Porky Smith was deputy (his son - piglet was a 4th former when i joined) and generally hated. Fr Murphy (spud) taught history and was loved by all. Fr Skillern was popular (saddended to read about his death) as one of the physics teachers - I can't remember the older one (perhaps Miles mentioned earlier??) but I do remember he used to mark our physics homework with coloured pencils - blue mainly. Hesketh was there and universally respected - he had moved on to flash orange 160zzz or something Nissan fastbacks - green cordurouy jackets and yellow nicotine-stained hands a constant. He was inspirational and the reason I took Geogers A-level (he used to refer to himself in after school remedial lessons as "Happy Harry Hesketh" - 's tea parties! Father Googan was still there as was Mugsy, although in a reduced role with something to do with Rugby and of course the boys showers.Was Father Norton ("Speedy") there in your time? he was getting on a bit and was famous for his line "I'll knock your block off". Woodwork/TD was with Chippy - can't remember his real name but I'm sure he was a lifer. We too had a sadistic games teacher who was my first form master in 1A - Mr Turner. Mr Pratt was till art and Mr Mucagee (Karman Ghia and famous for saying "you are disimproving") was head of Chemistry. Spike Wilkinson was feared as master of the slipper and French - his wife Mrs W was head of music. Pomfret was plain weird. I struggled to remember the name of the old Maths teacher (was that McMahon? - he was fair enough). I liked Eccles - nutty as a fruit cake - and attended a rediculous geography field trip with him that degenerated into a seriously long pub lunch in Kemsing.
I wish I'd enjoyed my St Mary's days more than I did - I found the regime oppressive and tended as a result to just keep my head down. There was no abuse other than physical - constant threat of canings etc
Anyway, thanks for your blog entries - very enjoyable reading
Peter Morgan
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your post. Interesting to learn that not much had changed in ten years. Maybe 40+ years on we can afford to be nostalgic and remember the good times, but there was plenty that wasn't much fun. There was a rather robust approach to childcare in operation back then - mostly involving hitting boys with sticks. Some of it can be seen with hindsight as acceptable by the standards of the day, but there is no doubt that some of it was brutal and excessive.
Porky Smith seemed tolerable at the time I was there, but maybe power went to his head when he got the top job. The physics teachers in my time were Porky, Fr Skillern and Fr Shorttle (Yorkie). Mr Miles taught biology and was a bit of a rum cove. He died before your time. Father Norton was known as "Noggin" and he seemed ancient in our days. He was rather given to hitting boys with the edge of a ruler - it's a wonder he didn't break anybody's fingers. "Chippy" I think must have been Mr Harding - a couple of his favourite expressions were "Leave it there - it can't fall down again" and "Job for you". I remember Mr Mukerjee's impentrable accident; maybe I'm confusing him with someone else, but wasn't one of his sayings "You have made a booboo"? The maths teachers when I was there were Mr McAndrew (a big built but rather mild-mannered chap in glasses nicknamed Moomin after the cartoon character) and Mr O'Mahoney (Arthur) - a vaguely Northern accent and ex Merchant Navy.
I don't know if our generation can take all the credit for the nicknames. There is a St. Mary's page on Friends Reunited (haven't checked it lately) and Fr McKeown was "Mugsy" back in the 1950s.
Cheers,
Phil
Hi folks
I was at St Mary's from 1961 to 1968 - glorious days.
It's good to read your comments and renew my fast fading memories.
No one has mentioned Miss Lovett !
I was pleased that some come-uppances were doled out - I remember being hauled over the coals by Lawson for missing a second-XV practice. I wanted to to go and visit a university I was applying to.
I met Mugsy (& McGoonan(?) a few years after I left - at Clyst St Mary in Devon, where we shared a few pints and reminisced.
Sorry to hear about Moomin - I wish I'd kept in touch. I did a lot of extra work with him, and went on to read Maths at Cambridge - and later to teach it. He was a great influence on me.
No abuse at the school at all - the odd mass caning, but nothing dramatically undeserved. There was an undercurrent of Opus Dei introduced in the sixth form, though.
I went back to the school to write an article about their new computer and was pleasantly surprised to find it was the very one I had written my first program on. It had been donated to them by the Research establishment where I spent my gap year. It filled a room and it's party trick was playing the Hippo Song (Flanders and Swann).
I went into teaching after University, and hope that my pupils remember me as charitably as we remember our old masters.
Pat Crabb
I think that from what is written I was in the year below those who have contributed, I remember Biff because we did A-level geology together - the first time it was done in the school and I think the last but all thanks to Eccles. One of my memories of Spike was not the French lessons (being tall I had to operate the projector for what they would now call audio/visual) but the fact that he took us for swimming in the later years and those of us who weren't good at ball games took 'shelter' doing this. He was a hard taskmaster but for those of us who wanted he would stay on after normal times and encourage us to take part in swimming 'games' which would normally bring the wrath of the baths staff down on our heads. I do put down to him my later absolute confidence in water knowing that if I found myself in water of a suitable depth I would be able to survive in almost any circumstances. My French expertise didn't however match that of my swimming.Sad to say my overall impressions of my schooldays is much like the above writers, certainly not the happiest days of my life. One thing which isn't mentioned was that like many secondary schools of the time we were all referred to by our surnames, which does give me a few problem when reading things like this blog and sites such s Friends Reunited. Having a rare surname I was easily identified Tingle - or Tinksey to my friends. on the subject of Pete Lawson strangely enough a few years after I left school he and his family moved next door to my parents, he had by then taken up his post as secretary to some national sports organisation, it was there where the problems with bookkeeping which lead to his incarceration occurred.
Finally gypsy tart - was in the class of Marmite, you either hated it or loved it. Very sugary, probably the cause of type two diabetes in our generation. I loved it and it was the one pudding that could guarantee seconds and sometimes thirds and even sometimes being brought out for seconds the next day - needless to say I have very few of my own teeth these days.
Tinksey (Steve Tingle)
Hi Steve T. Yes, I too thought Spike's swimming sessions were much better the normal 'games'. And Eccles was someone I got on with pretty well - I went on to do a geology degree, which has meant a lifetime of interest in how the planet is put together. Latest project is organising The Louth Festival of the Bees: www.bit.ly/LouthBees
Hi Biff,
I went on to do a joint honours in Geography and Geology, mainly because I failed the second year Geology and it was a way of getting my grant for a second year Geog and retaking the second year Geology a year later - I did get it though only a third. But I have kept up my interest moving a few hundredweight of specimens in every house move, they are now in a pile in the corner of my garden shed waiting for a re-sorting s the boxes they were in have disintegrated. I didn't use the degree though, after 5 years in the civil service trying to work out what I could do I ended up in computing as a programmer until December 2011 when they made me redundant but due to my age gave me a pension and a good payoff so I'm now retired and living on the coast of Lancashire. Not much geology around here though, mostly peat and sand, but whenever I'm near rocky outcrops I have a look for old times sake. Sadly over the last few months I have been quite ill so apart from my garden have no plans in mind. Yes I liked Eccles too and he inspired me on the geology front with his enthusiasm. I did the degree at Derby college, now university, and Simon Harle was on the same course, well he was instrumental in finding me the place there. I did keep in touch with him for a number of years but have now lost touch, last I heard he was living in Devon. About the only other contact I had with the school was going to an open day around the time Father Greystone was retiring.
Steve T.
moving a few hundredweight of specimens in every house move, they are now in a pile in the corner of my garden shed waiting for a re-sorting s the boxes they were in have disintegrated.
Oh, that is so familiar!
Hi Biff,
a correction of my earlier post Simon Harle was last I hear in Donyatt in Somerset, not Devon, has anyone had any contact with him more recently than the 90s?
Biff I rather like your involvement with the festival of the bees in Louth. I'm a bit of leading member in our local Horticultural society (Thornton Cleveleys HS) or rather I was until illness enforced a back seat this year. And I do try to keep my two small gardens wildlife friendly, no lawn, just undergrowth though the same illness has rather seen it wilder than I planned. Hopefully as I get better I will be planting more Bee friendly plants again, plus setting up winter shelter for them. And that reminds me of the Indian lady who took us for Biology in the third year and her 'de oney bee' lessons, I think she was only a fill-in while the main teacher was off ill. Unfortunately her rather thick accent distracted us from our learning somewhat.
Steve T.
I was in the same year as Pat Crabb, and have fond memories of Neville Wilkinson, John O'Neill, Philip Smith, Paul Jukes, Sidney Kenny-Levick and orher lay teachers.
As for the priests,well, they were at best non-entities, and at worst thuggish pissheads.
Hi all,
I was another 1961-8 vintage. Terry, I must get round to returning your 'Story of the Blues' double LP! I gave up Catholicism around 1965, but the capacity for guilt remains! Pat, not surprised you taught maths. It seemed effortless to you - it always baffled me!
Mugs always seems to be the strongest memory that people have of St Mary's. The interminable double-length history sessions, which consisted of simple dictation interspersed with random questions and "Dot him Sec." (Sec,, for us, being John Turnbull). I can't remember how many dots it took to get walloped. God knows how I passed History at 'A' level, although, like most of our year and to the great chagrin of the priests, I failed Religious Studies at 'O' Level!
For no obvious reason Sid Kenny-Levick's name came into my mind, which is what led me back to this site. A Google search sadly showed that Sidney Lawrence Kenny-Levick, B.A., M.A. died in Chiselhurst in 2011 aged 74. Possibly not the same person, but it would be a hell of a coincidence.
Not being particularly gregarious or a footballer, I tended to keep my head down most of the time, so never attracted the thrashing attentions of the more violent masters. I recall most of them, certainly the lay staff, as pretty reasonable chaps. Yes Mr 'Mousey' Murrell, I remember you as one of the nice ones. My mother clearly fancied smoothie Ron Hesketh!
I remember Fr Paddy Goonan having to give us a talk about sex when we were about 15 or 16. He blushed deep red from start to finish, stared fixedly at the clock the entire period and, as far as I can recall, didn't actually mention sex! Naive as I was I think I was probably already better informed than him.
Probably the best times I remember are lying out on the sports field in the summer Sun, surrounded by all my friends. I think that the cause of my 'popularity' was actually my GEC Leatherlook transistor radio,on which we listened to the daring pirates of Radio Caroline.
Like many of those who didn't go to Uni. I went into banking, but after 2 years, I realised that it wasn't for me. 30 years in the police turned out to be a much better career choice which left me with some great memories and a reasonable pension ;-)
I went to a couple of reunions recently and it was good to meet many of the class of '61. I don't have the enthusiasm to organise another one myself, but would be happy to turn up if somebody else did!
Looking for Paul Juckes, teacher of Spanish. I was with him in 1976 in Saint Mary's
Luis Alfonso Diez
siulad@gmail.com
Greetings...
I was at St Mary’s between 1968 and 1970 having moved up from a Gloucestershire grammar school on the death of my father.
Ron was a great bloke and an inspirational teacher. His pose in the group school photograph was typical of his style, relaxed, arms folded....rather ‘putting up’ with occasion. Everyone else appears to be very formal; some seem to be protecting their genitals like a wall of footballers during an indirect penalty.
I remember Eccles and his geology classes....haphazard but inspirational....just like his field trips. I have fond memories of batting around in his VW Beetle in north Kent. To this day I can recall a rhyme he taught us: Go See Dem Gabriels, PS My Granny, My Daughter, My Sister and Dolly, Ride out on their andy batmobiles. Can anyone remember what that was about?
Father Greystone wasn’t a bad old chap; I think he had rather a lot to put up with. I recall a service he gave in the small chapel next to the main hall around 69/70. Just as he raised the holy Eucharist a member of the fifth-form (you know who you are) farted very loudly. This led to uncontrolled expressions of mirth and is the only time I ever saw Greystone red in the face with anger. But no hint of group punishment....I think Mugs had gone by then!
The only wacking I ever got was done by Spike. Can’t remember what the offence was, but I do remember the size 13 plimsoll...a good teacher though.
I liked old Yorkie and found his mannerisms very amusing. I used to treat myself to a large Benson & Hedges cigar midweek and smoke it surreptitiously (so I thought) in the scenery storage shed. During one parents evening Yorkie said to my mother “do you know that Peter smokes cigars”? To which my mother replied “Oh yes, but they are such very good cigars, aren’t they”? Yorkie never mentioned it to me. As others have pointed out, he was a heavy smoker himself and died of heart problems possibly associated with it.
Regards
Peter
A few of us are getting together for beer - or tea/coffee - and reminiscence on the 7th June 2014 in Chislehurst. If you were in our year at St Mary's Grammar, you cannot fail to recognise the names of those who are already committed, Steve Clarke, Steve Dean, Patrick Dunleavy, John Escott, Keith Gardiner, Phil Mackie, Chris Miller - variously and severally distinguished in school days as sportsmen, thespians, musicians, academics, and holders of high office. Also sure to be there is the somewhat peripheral Charlie Joyce. Some have remained friends since school but most of us have not seen one another for 40+ years
If you would like to join us, please contact me on ch.joyce@blueyonder.co.uk so that I can ensure that our arrangements are adequate.
Thank you to Phil Mackie.
I was at St Marys earlier than the writers here from 1957-1962. When I think back now I cannot believe how they got away with the canings. Nowadays they would all be locked up. I only got it once from Fr Mc Iver the previous Headmaster who otherwise I found kindly and who left in the same year as me.
The nicest teacher there was Ron Hesketh but I expect he is dead now as he smoked a lot. Jarvis was an outstanding man for English Literature. Mugs never caned me and was decent. Fr Duffy once sentenced me to detention but gave it a miss as suspected was a pervert but he disappeared from the school. I have not seen any of the boys who were there in my time Peter Sander Ted Bell Rodney Tipple Claud Hart .
I can never believe that any of the teachers were ever like Robert Nee the headmaster at Shortlands House(now Bishop Challoner). He was an obsessive caner and of his notorious strap. Most days he would have up to six pupils lined up outside his office.Fortunately I did not get much but my brother who went there a bit later just left and went to another school. Nowadays this headmaster would be in the tabloids . However looking up the school now it has obviously improved. But some of us in my years came from that school although I got there on a transfer from Cray Valley Technical School nearby where the headmaster JC Kingsland was very good and often think should have stayed there without the 2 hour art classes.
You may be interested to see that I have recently updated my web site ( www.reddgate.co.uk )and added more names to the 1963 photo. Philip Jones has supplied quite a few names and I have added a link to the Kentish times school play photos.
I met with John O'Farrell (ace photographer) a few weeks back when he popped over from his home in Oz en route to some European destinations.
Best Wishes, David
It is amazing how you could be in a different year at St Mary's in those days and hardly know 'pupils' in other years. I remember by the time we got to Form 5 in 1962 I was one of only 28 and despite mediocre previous performance in that year came in 4th behind Rodney Tipple Ted Bell and Peter Sander. I have been thinking back and can now remember a few more names Alfred O'della brilliant mathematician -his friend Terence Goodrick who wante to be a dentist.There was also Michael Rickard who went with me into the Lower 6 along with Tipple and Bell and therte into Upper 6 we had very small classes as little as 4 for some subjects.In these years the influence of Mugs was rather different -we were considered as somewhat proven as O level achievers and 'voluntary' to be nurtured although the teaching was similarly dictated notes and reading plus little comment and no Sec !But I also remember John Warburton Terry Futter Jeffs Big Ivan and not so fondly Derrick Carter who left in 5th year and maybe got sub O Level ordinary jobs maybe beneficially.I also remember Wigglesworth and Farmer who caught the Greenline busto Sidcup from my way -then Beckenham.At currently 69I do wonder how many of these boys are now still alive? We tend to live longer but not all !
Hi Phil
Good to see David's old school photo on reddgate.co.uk and also to see some of the names (some of which I knew but others that have got lost in the mists of time)!
Next to me in the photo (over to the right in the third row) is definitely Dexter. Next to 'Yeti' Firth is Guy ? (can't recall his surname).
Behind O'Mahony is Denis Bourne and behind Fr Shortle is Marek Cubitt.
Hope this helps...
Although no academic, I think St Mary's provided a good grounding for me (although I passed 11+ to technical school). I went on to a career in engineering, first in telecommunications, then in automotive. I spent 30 years with Mazda in various management roles and spent the last 10 or so years there in sales.
Now retired, but still see Stuart Robinson from time to time (usually at Pink Floyd tribute concerts), David Valente and have fairly regular email contact with Paul Goodman.
Regards
Ian
HiPhil
Ive spent a good hour reading with interest the comments
Poor old Mugsy seems to get a lot of hits but very much deserved a wicked so called Christian. Far worse tho was an evil little runt by the name of Wilfred Duffy who seems to have escaped mention.A sadistic monster regularly linked with perverse activities. Also a goody with rare mentions is Leo Mc Iver.
John B.
To John B. I was in a different year than those on here being in Form 5 in year 1959/60 and Upper 6 in 1962 But I did post on May 25 about Fr Duffy as I have but never aware of anything sadistic about him just a bit pathetic. Leo Mc Iver generally kindly with the odd lapse. Ron Hesketh -very professional encouraging and supportive - Jarvis very well qualified but sometimes unpleasant. Wing field had bad habit of slapping kids round the ears.These days some of the rest of them would be in court. I have rather intruded on this blog -will refrain if preferred let me know -but I do find it so odd that there was so little contact between different years at the school in those days
For those of you who have not heard of the passing of "Black Harry"
http://sub-umbra-alarum-suarum.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/fr-philip-graystone-sm-rip-past.html
Hi Phil,
I just saw your post about Father Graystone. Strange how much impact that had after all these years. I reckon he is probably the first person I actually respected for who he was as a person and what he did. As I said above I wasn't the best pupil and had a few problems but he was more than fair with me - so a little late but "Thank you Black Harry".
Mick
PS Someone mentioned Pomfret McMahon a while ago in the same context as a creepy latin master - Olim Smith. Pomfret was another teacher who was a good bloke and very encouraging. One of my favourite memories is him having an argument outside the school gates with Olim Smith and when it got heated he threw Smith's briefcase over the fence, Good on him!!! (you'll gather I didn't like Olim at all)
Cheers!
Does anyone know what happened to Aggie Doran, Para and Dodo etc. and anyone involved with The School for Scandal directed by the kindly Cyril Truman.
Raspi
I feel that i should go a little further than my curt posting on 26/12/14. I can be seen in the photograph standing immediately behind the blond teacher next to Mr Muckerjee. I had arrived at St Mary's from St Joseph's Orpington in September 1965 and remained there until my family moved to Norwich in June 1968.
I played Sir Benjamin Backbite in 'A School for Scandal' and have many happy memories of the production. I sang in Batman's choir and remember the gentle Arnold Reid.
By the way, there seems to be some debate over the school motto - it was Monstra Te Esse Matrem - show thyself to be a mother. This was probably changed to something a little more diplomatic when girls arrived.
Rasputin.
On second thoughts I could be seriously at fault about the the school motto. Sorry, it's a long time ago.
I tried posting an email to ch. Joyce but it failed. I simply wanted to say that I live in East Kent part of year and part of year abroad? I have not received any responses to my own posts so at 70 years I think I have written enough on here and will not write further for those reasons. however it was interesting to find and read about the school I where I spent a few years.
All. Sorry if I do not reply to everyone's comments as they come in. It is very much in the nature of electronic communications that if we don't respond immediately things slip rapidly down the pile. I was at St. Mary's from 1963 to 1970 so may not have anything to add to the reminiscences of those who came earlier or later. Nonetheless it is still interesting to read them. Clearly we all have our own perspective our time there. But for many of us, the old place still has a very long reach.
This started out as just one entry in a blog about a lot of other things, but it has certainly attracted more than its share of hits and taken on a life of its own. Maybe one day when I have a spare minute(!) I shall create a blog specifically for t. Mary's.
James (I still have some programmes from old school plays) re the school motto. Does the phrase "Do your homework on the bus" ring any bells?
Pat. I have an e-mail address for Charles Joyce. If you would like to contact me direct (my e-mail address is in my profile) I'll let you have it.
L
My post was lost sorry. thanks Phil for comment. nice to know someone has been reading me. will look in from time to time. maybe a few from my years will discover the blog .
Hi,
I was a pupil at Joseph's Convent in the 1970's. I know that many who attended that school progressed to St Mary's.
I'm currently researching St Joseph's, St Lawrence's Church and consequently also St Mary's for a few online pages and hopefully a documentary as I'm an actor-director.
So any info etc on these 3 establishments will be welcome.
Chis & Sid already have a published book on their history.
Hi again
very interesting to read your coments . I can update on several pupils and some masters.
I came across Shortle back in his native M iddlesbrough in the late 60 s I believe he died in the 70 s
Whilst working in Bromley 1972/77 I came across Leo McIver who was suffering kidney problems and looked quite unwell. Whilst travelling through Sidcup at the same time I saw Mugsy Mckeown stopped and chatted.Talk about devil looking after his own he was fit as a flee and just as acid as he was in the early 60s.
of the pupils I kept in touch with Joe (glen)Gariff until a very serious stroke left him totally paralysed. He died some 3 years ago
Steve Gomez was a taxi driver in the 70 s
James Aitcheson was working in a warehouse
Jan Blakoviac became Dr. Ian Black and was my doc for several years his younger brother had Florians deli in Blackheath
As so many posts say the whole place was a joke and many of its jailers would be in prison today.
I was an inmate at St. Mary's Grammar from 1959-1964. Millions of memories. Fr Shorttle was the Discipline Master (and Physics Master). He was often heard to yell out at miscreants, in his strong Yorkshire accent: "I'll break your bally back !!!"(Translation: "I will break your bloody back").
He also had a wicked right-hook and put me down for a count of eight, when once an over-zealous Prefect "reported me" for wearing a blue-and-white shirt, instead of the regulation grey shirt or white shirt. Nice bloke.
All-in-all, five years of wonder. School Captain at Football, Cricket. Very good at all Sports. Academically, I was a total waste of space.
My elder brother John and I spent two years at St Mary's - '63 and '64 before our family emigrated to South Africa at the beginning of '65. John has retired in Melbourne Australia and I am retired in Cyprus. We both remember the notice board incident, I particularly remember academic gowns in full flight backwards and forwards, up and down the stairs... I thought WW3 had started!
I was on the tour to the Italian Riviera in 1964 and remember we were left to our own devices for most of the time - wandering around in our little groups. One day someone raised the alarm that someone had not returned from an evening swim and so a couple of boys were dispatched to find Muggs and/or Shortle. Eventually Muggsy arrived as dusk was settling in and proceeded to strip off and swim out from the beach. He swam up and down for what seemed like an eternity. He wasn't too pleased when the 'missing' boy pitched up blissfully unaware of the commotion!
Another indelible memory for me was an away rugby game at Cannock House(?) I was Captain of the U15 Colts team and our match was played on a pitch in the middle of a forrest quite far from the main school buildings so we had no spectators from our side and very few in total. I know we scored quite a few tries but the score remained obstinately at 0-0 each and in fact this was the final scoreline. One of the many reasons given to me by their referee for disallowing one of our tries was "you have to dot it down with two hands"
As you can imagine when reporting the result to Muggsy up at the 1st team game I got short shrift when trying to register my feelings on the quality of the refereeing!
Another rugby memory and Muggsy was a practice session at school when it had been snowing all day and we were all standing in a group waiting to hear if we were going home or not. When Muggsy announced that practice was cancelled a small cheer went up and this resulted in us all having to do a run around the perimeter of the grounds in 1-2 feet of snow. Muggsy never let us down!
Thanks Phil and everyone else for sharing the memories - it doesn't feel like 50 years ago!
One request...in the school photo I am second from the left in the back row and my best mate was Gerry who is first from the left.. can anyone give me any details of where he may be now? I can't remember his surname I'm afraid.
Thanks again for the memories.
Brian Parker
Hi Phil, I was at St Mary's from 1965 to 1973 and have similar anecdotes and reminiscences to those already posted so I will just add two - the best and the worst, so to speak.
I particularly resented Peter Lawson's habit of appointing those he considered to be good at sports as team captains. Because they also picked the teams, the team captains were, in effect, given a free hand to humiliate those who were less athletic or who wore glasses. I ended up hating games and the team captains, too.
On the other hand, "Spike" Wilkinson's swimming lessons were inspirational. After Lawson's survival of the fittest appproach, I would never have believed myself capable of swimming twenty lengths fully clothed, diving off the top board or bringing up bricks from the bottom of the deep end - but he made sure everybody learned. He was also an excellent French teacher and it is largely thanks to him that I later became a language teacher and a translator.
Thank you for this blog. It would be nice to hear from some old classmates.
Douglas Town
Sorry, that should be 1966 to 1973. I forgot I was made to stay on an extra year at primary school (St. Joseph's, Plaistow Lane, Bromley) because my birthday is on October 2nd.
Maths was never my best subject. Poor Father Norton was forced to teach us the "new maths" but I could never quite see the point of so many matrices and functions of x and neither, I suspect, could he because he sometimes got lost lost and had to start again. He must have been seventy if he was a day. We used to spend many a class counting the number of times he would say "for example". ("Look, for example, let's, for example, take, for example, two for example ...")
Hi, I discovered this blog post after trying to work out what became of St Mary's Grammar School (I'm sure most of you know that it became a Sixth Form College, firstly under the name of St Luke's, and now as Christ The King: St Mary's - I'm pleased the old name is back).
I am a few generations removed from Phil's photo having attended St Mary's in the transition years from 1975 to 1980 by which latter year the amalgamation with St Joseph's, Abbey Wood, had taken place. Many of the names on the teaching staff already mentioned resonate with me too although 'Harry Black' had become plain 'Black' in my time. Mr Smith, the Latin master, was always 'Olim' (does anyone know why; it means 'once' if I remember correctly) and I also remember 'Spud', 'Spike' (or even the more familiar 'Nev'), 'Chippy', 'Porky' and of course 'Speedy'. The stereotypical PE master, Mr Turner, was 'Rod' but I don't know if that was his name or a reference to his own fondness for slippering miscreants, usually first thing in the morning. His more usual punishments were to send you round the so-called "cross-country" circuit out to the bypass and back or, if you ever forgot your kit, to make you wear whatever you could salvage that was near enough your size from a bag of old and very unwashed kit that he kept in the changing room.
I'm amazed to find out that my tutor at LSE, none other than Patrick Dunleavy, was a St Mary's old boy too though he never said anything to me. The eminent old boy I do remember is now The Rt Rev Tom Burns, Bishop of Menevia, but plain Fr Burns in those days; he wielded a mean slipper too as I remember being told although I do agree with others above who comment that the regime back then was simply that of the time and nothing more sinister.
Someone mentioned the school song which was the traditional Latin hymn 'Te Matrem Praedicamus'. As I'm writing this on a Mac, I can't cut and paste to an address but simply type into Google and a YouTube link will pop up. Only ever sang on high days and holy days by my time and indeed I only recall singing it once.
And, just to finish, my path to St Mary's was through the St Joseph's Convent primary school in Hatherley Road.
Thanks very much for the chance to go down memory lane!
Andrew J
A few more things whilst scrolling back up: the motto was 'In Omnibus Labora' and certainly before the girls arrived.
The teacher's full-width bench in the physics and / or chemistry labs: one experiment involved dropping a tiny amount of potassium into a large container of water to see it fizz around on reacting. One day someone rather overdid it with the potassium with the result that a mini-explosion rocked the lab subsequently generating much mirth! The physic s lab was dominated by the huge Van de Graaf generator as I recall.
Andrew J
I agree with others who have posted earlier that Hesketh was a real class act
1969>1976
I agree with others who have posted earlier that Hesketh was a real class act, and I also share in their admiration for his utter disrespect for the bullies amongst his colleagues. As one of life’s natural rogues, I appreciated his tangential support. Because there were lots of bullies. Thomas, the sports master (and,inappropriately our year 1 form master) was a case in point: unnaturally sadistic, even for times when the mildest of teachers would think nothing of walloping with a child a slipper, a ruler or a cane for speaking out of turn. Few such beatings were actually entered in the “punishment book” (apparently a statutory and completely ineffectual deterrent to the more sadistic “educators”).
Hesketh also had some great catch-phrases, ranging from the mundane but useful “the wind doth blow from high to low” to the effete exasperation of “I cast pearls of wisdom at your feet and you grrrind them into the dust”, sometimes apocapated to “pearls at the feet of swine”.
As for Father Norton, an ancient monument (possibly before his time) he was the sweetest man on earth but, as also commented earlier, absolutely out of his depth with “modern maths”. He had some great catch-phrases, including the inspirational “Danger, men at work”. And then he’d cover blackboards with equations etc and get stuck. At which point he’d put a hand over his forehead and say, “It’s got to be there, staring me in the face, but I just can’t see it at all.”
Some of the comments about Eccles are a bit unfair. I don’t remember much of the geography he taught but we did have some in-depth discussions on Northern Ireland and the IRA (and this at a time – the early/mid 70s – when the local police were regularly beating up some of our classmates’ elder brothers just because they were Irish: I could name names but I shan’t). And one time in a heated discussion on religion (taboo in a school where you were all supposed to believe the same thing) I stuck two fingers up at him behind his back and he turned round and saw it. He let it ride with a “blimey, we have a Harvey Nicholls in the room”. Cool cat.
And Neville Wilkinson was a good chap and a great teacher, and so was Paul Juckes. They both gave me a life-long appreciation – dare I say love – for language. Both were too handy with the slipper and the “bicyclette” (gripping the hair at the top of adolescent sideburns and twisting it in opposite directions - yeah, very educational, but also a symptom of the times. As far as I recall, there was only one teacher who didn’t do corporal punishment at all and most of us thought he was a wimp).
Another teacher who rarely hit out was Pomfret (I never understood the nickname) aka Dermott McMahon, a really inspired English teacher, who was a real expert on Anglo-Irish literature and is probably one of the few people who have actually read Finnegan’s Wake several times. He apparently would spend most Saturdays rummaging the shelves at Foyles and reading pricey tomes of literary criticism for the price of only his time. Good old Dermott. He taught me how to read.
There was also Father Burns, who I think was a good man. I have little to say for the rest of them.
Hi all, I attended St Marys from 1966 to 1973 and I believe I was in the same class as Douglas Town. I found many of the comments to be true but I was very lucky to enjoy my time at school. I thought many of the teachers were stars starting with Mr Harding our first year form teacher and woodwork master, I still remember the smell of wood glue from all his pots bubbling away. I hold Fr Graystone in high regard as a very reasonable man and one who always had time to listen to pupils a skill not always found in the work environment. Mr Pratt, art but really as a cricket umpire and many others encouraged in me a love of sport, Fr Trueman, english who sadly passed away during my time at St Marys was another often with a kind or encouraging word, how did he get me involved in one of the school plays?! Having had a career in science I know I was encouraged by all the science teachers. Eccles geography was great fun. Fr Norton had a human side not often shown with the new maths all matrices and vectors which left nearly everybody confused it was a real relief to do old fashion maths in the sixth form. I struggled with languages and hence I have a different view on those teachers. With regard to punishments when I spoke with others St Marys seem to have been mild in comparison, just goes to show what the norm was! If there are any proposed reunions please let me know. Francis Arthur Brown Thanks to I think Will C for my nickname
It's good to read that St Mary's was more enjoyable in the years 1966 to 1973. I was there from 1957-1962 and when I was shocked from the start by the easy use of the cane with clergy walking up and down the class caning pupils for not reciting Latin conjugations etc. But as I have posted before it was never as bad as the regime of Robert Nee at Bishop Challoner in at least the early days when I was there which I have knowledge of
I was at St Marys 1966 to 1973. Reading the above has been fascinating. I think it was a good school by the standards of the day. It was after all a long time ago. I may post some more after reflection.
When I arrived in '72 I got the shock of my life. I was well used to unhinged religious as I'd be taught by nuns, but nothing prepared me for the eccentricity and arbitrary brutality of St. Mary's.
I refused to work, and went from the top of the class at primary school to the bottom at secondary school, and stayed there. I left as soon as I got my NI number and worked for several years in dead end jobs before getting back into education, where I have spent my working life. So, no happy memories, unfortunately. Of the masters I recall Spike, who would make me stand and utter phrases, the better to highlight and ridicule my then proletarian vowels and glottal stop; the great Dermot McMahon, who encouraged me in my English (in between rabbit punches to the side of the head); Black Harry, who was, I suppose, a decent chap who understandably refused my request to put up a Rock against Racism poster; the egregious and sadistic Irish-hating sports master, who hit me with a cricket bat twice on the behind; Speedy "Damn-it-all" Norton, who confused rather than taught; an effete chap who had a special leather strap that lived in his pocket. Anyone out there from my time?
PF
MrJ
Philip Smith, the latin teacher (now dead) was called "Olim" because the first line in a story in one of our text books was (or was something like): "Erat olim monstrum horrendum Hydra nomine".
Steve Armourae
If you are still looking for ideas about St Joseph's or St Lawrence's, I can help.
Pat Boorman
I was a pretty angry teenager and Jock Nee was a great support. I don't recognise your description of him.
'Eric' Shortle
Because I lived in Sidcup and was an altar boy, I had a lot of contact with him. But I remember his uncontrolled explosion of violence when he thought a boy had cheeked him in class.
Fr. Howarth and the ruler on the piano - priceless
Luan Kane
It depends Luan whether you think keeping discipline in his way is acceptable on young boys under 10 years of age. My brother left that school because he refused to accept it. After previously being so treated. If you have boys lined up 3 or 4 at a time outside a headmasters office for this strap treatment you have to have your own opinion whether or not it was a good or bad thing. My opinion is that it was not a good thing and there are better ways to develop positive motivation than intimidation. There will always be differences of opinion about this and I am writing having experienced it but only once. Maybe you were there later than about 1954 and he may have mellowed. These of course we're different times from now when sometimes we think maybe discipline maybe too lax !
Luan
Am I right in remembering you in the ACF at the same time as me?
Sorry to hear of Olim's death. My clearest memory of him was his sex education talk, which embarassed him and delighted us. He spoke a little about "your little tap", and then, with great relief, got on with other things. I remember the day we heard he was going to be a father. He got a standing ovation, which he accepted bashfully. Which reminds me of Pommo's (McMahon's) new suit. He wore the same manky old suit every day for years and years. It was clearly past its best when I arrived, and I saw him in no other until one day, when I was in the fifth year, he appeared in a brand new suit. Again, a standing ovation.PF
hi Pat Boorman
remember you well
please contact me on jaybee@fsmail.net
John B
At St Mary's from 1966-73. I remember Douglas Town well as I was always impressed by how he and Michael Shine had the ability to take inert chemicals and cause an explosion! This got me me the cane once from Mr Muckerjee which he increased by two lashes every time I protested my innocence until he reached a count of twelve, I seem to remember he stopped at eight... I seemed to get lots of chances to read through the punishment book as I returned to classes after collecting it and the cane from the secretaries office. I believe I was completely innocent of wrongdoing on many occasions but had the misfortune to be easily identified by the staff as they all seemed to remember my older brother Patrick Squires!
Nice to hear that my old classmate Francis Brown is still around, I remember his family well as we both lived in Gorsewood Road, Hartley.
'Arthur' was always on time as he got the 7.40 train but I had a late pass as I got the 8.04 with Martin Pain who I still see regularly.
Never minded Lawson as a sports master although I do remember his competition with 'Spike' to see who could propel a poor unfortunate further across the room with a slipper to the bottom...
Francis Brown said..
Hi Francis Squires, pleased to hear that you still around. I remember you and Martin very well. I live in Gloucester now and have gone back to full time work after several years retired! I can be contacted on francis4cricket@btinternet.com. As you probably gathered from my earlier comments my memories of St Marys are very happy and possibly through rose tinted glasses! Kind regards Francis Brown
I was at St Mary's from 1962 to 1969. Reading this has brought back all sorts of memories.
There was a lot of wholesale caning. That was the way things were. I remember kids lining up on the stairs after assembly to be beaten. I very much objected to being caned for missing a sports day.
Sid Kenny-Levick was a decent bloke with a very pretty wife or girlfriend. Murrel and O'Neill were good-hearted and helpful. McKeown wasn't. Pop Cassidy was just a nice old boy, always open to a distraction. Shortle was ok. Discipline master must have been a lousy job. I can remember Pomfret when he arrived. He always looked incredibly nervous. I didn't take to Hesketh, nor he to me.
I don't think anyone knew what was in gypsy tart, or gypsy fart as people wittily called it. School dinners were ok with seconds often available. I was hopeless at sport and spent a lot of energy trying to get out of it but took part in one school play, A Midsummer Night's Dream.
I think being there in the 60s meant that I didn't get as much out of the place as I might have otherwise. It was a time of rebellion. But I didn't find inspiration there either.
Interesting blog.
I was at St Mary's from 1957 till 1962 and believe it was a truly unforgettable experience! All your comments have brought back some happy and many unhappy memories.
I remember most of the teachers, some fondly like Mr Jarvis although he did like to take the mickey out of me for mispronunciation of many of the characters from Greek mythology.
Fr McKeown was a truly sadistic priest. I believe it was 5 dots 'earned' before the slipper was brought to bear. In one year we had PE lessons before one of his history lessons each week and he always started dictating before we arrived at the classroom, having been delayed because of the mandatory communual shower. If you didn't have the complete dictation written in your book for the next lesson you received the usual 5 dots for starters.
I remember one Saturday I went to a football match with a classmate. Charlton were playing Aston Villa in a cup match and we were supporting AV. He saw us there and gave us both 10 dots at the next lesson for not supporting Charlton!!
If there is anybody out there who was in my classes (1A -5A) at the same time it would be great to hear from you at lepidopterist@outlook.com.
Re- anonymous. I am horrified still what I read about this school. It is very annoying that the offenders cannot now be brought to justice. All I can say is I am thankful that I had a fairly easy ride compared with some in those years to 1962 when I left upper 6. It is possible that because I made effort with academic work that I got a lenient approach and After I got good O levels the 6 th form I was much left alone including being in Mugs 6th form and getting 60 per cent at A level - must be a C now perhaps but it was quite an achievement then.. I have most dislike thinking back of Jarvis who used to call me Nancy. Not in the least effeminate but with history of asthma from 2.5 years wasn't the strongest of lads and it was not until my twenties that I broke away from the academic track and did some physical labour in a little business of my own that Gi built myself out of it. I give McKeown some credit for intelligence in not dropping me in by the ankles at the swimming baths knowing I had a breathing problem?
hi pat
I remember you well and many guys you mention
love to hear from you
jaybee@fsmail.net
john bradford
Thanks John for your comment. I honestly don't remember you. I really have thought hard - it is a long time- so I hope you will not be offended if I don't respond . Best wishes.
I've been thinking again since I posted about appearing in Adrian Jarvis's production of A Midsummer Night's Dream in 1965 or 66. I was one of Titania's four fairy servants, a male. For some reason the production was costumed as though set in Regency England so my costume was a sort of silk braided jacket (think the Beatles on the Sergeant Pepper cover) over white tights and my gym shoes and topped with a white wig. Greasepaint was applied with a heavy hand and we had sequins gummed onto our eyelids to pick up a spotlight that changed colour. If I remember rightly there was lots of dry ice and smoke for the fairy fantasy scenes.
Even the "female" fairies couldn't get the delicacy Jarvis wanted. There was one scene in particular which drove him mad. The four of us were on top of what was Titania's den, a structure about four feet high on one side of the stage. At some point in the scene we were supposed to more or less float down to the stage. But the four of us leaped off the structure and landed with all the delicacy of a car crash.
No, no, no, Jarvis would shout at us, you're supposed to be fairies not elephants. We did the best we could.
Hi Phil
Interesting to see your blog about St Mary's. You might not recall me but I joined the 6th Form you were in and so also left in 1970. Good to read some of the reminiscences of that time. Also remember Chris Miller. Agree all the teachers were fine even the priests - god bless them. Good to see there is an old boys' network despite the sad decline of the school into a co-ed comp and now a 'fortress-like' Six Form College. Like to keep in touch. All the best, Denis van Mechelen.
Hi Adolf (surname Morgan isn't it?)
Just seen your post. Yes I recall you and I am that Denis van Mechelen. Remember Brit Con and Mr Ribbons (?wasn't it), and for my sins went on to major in politics and economic history at lancaster before heading to LSE where did Masters and PhD in political sociology. Various research posts around the country. Path crossed with Patrick D. Then self-employed Japanese language magazine publishing and market research before ending up doing pay research/surveys for the Police Federation of E&W. Still working. How about you. Certainly remember the journeys' home on the bus with Phil and Otto. Sorry to hear of his sad demise and about Tom, who I remember fondly on x-country runs.
How interesting to come across this blog by chance. I was at St Mary's probably from 1957-1964. Good times, bad times. Varied memories though I try not to harp on them. But I do have to say that Mr Hesketh was an inspiration, one of those teachers who opened my mind to thinking more widely. Was very saddened many years later when my brother told me that Mr Miles was hounded by the students and committed suicide. He was a different inspiration. My life didn't really begin until I left school, and stepped into the pleasures of London. One evening I will read through the whole blog, but I did catch that John Murrell now lives in Lisbon, one of our favourite places. I wonder if he has read my book on that wonderful city, explored through its cultural and literary threads? I recall Mr Murrell, though probably only taught by him when he stepped in to cover for another teacher. Though I returned to Sidcup to live some years ago, I see it more as a way to be close to London than as a place to immerse myself in for its memories. That's not to say that various references and comments have not slipped in to various books I've written. While I was there Keef & Dick Taylor and others were at the Art School across the park, and I recall seeing them lounging on the grass playing their guitars.
I was a pupil at St Marys Grammar school from 1956 to 1961 and HATED the cursed place! I lived in Gravesend and was DELIGHTED when I passed my 11 Plus exam but MORTIFIED when Mummy insisted that I had to go to a Catholic school! I was small and obviously came from a poor family unable to match the well supplied richer kids who looked down on me.
I finally escaped from this awful place in 1961 and resisted all invitations to return since!
I made a few friends - Michael Grannell and Ray Spooner were my best friends
I finished my education on day release from my Employer and ended up with HNC in Industrial Chemistry - a VERY modest qualification but I got by!
Hi Pat
I was at St Marys Prison the same as you but dont remember your name
there were quite a few from Gravesend Carter Stoddart O neill
Do you recall
john bradford
That school would not be allowed now- it still exists so it must have changed. I remember around 1982 when I was working for a firm of solicitors a young lady joined as a secretary and told me she had just left the school and Ron Hesketh had just retired. I heard that Leo McIver died in Sidcup in 1996. McIver was good to me taking me into a Grammar School from Cray Valley Tech where I had to endure 2 hour Art Claaes twice a week. I will be 73 years this year and it just occurs to me that so many that were at that school in my years to 1962 are probably no longer living. Not hear of Rodney Tipple Ted Bell Claud Hart Alfed Odell. I wonder if Jeffs is still around Terry Futter John Warburton Michael Rickard - I envied his haircut . Derrick Carter remember not so well. McIver used to give out the questions for the Oxford Local GCE before the exam so I got higher grades than maybe I ought to have had. Actually my belief is that it caused me much difficulty subsequently because I had openings on these that took me up blind alleys. Amazing now the great opportunities youngsters have to get basic occupational qualifications. In those days apart from getting a few into University they did not have a clue at this school about vocational training. But the technical schools only turned out young men for factories 7.30 - 4.30 8- 5 grinds while at least in the Grammar schools you more likely were heading for 9-5. All changed now trades people are often self employed and work hours they choose ! One becomes increasingly aware as one ages that fewer of our peers are still living.!
Hi to all fellow sufferers who had the misfortune to be 'educated' at St Marys and especially to Paul Buck who was one of my classmates from 1957 till 1962. I did comment earlier January 14th 2017 under anonymous so I have already said a few things about school life during those years.
I wonder if you Paul or anyone else reading this blog knows what has become of, or is, some of our fellow inmates: Peter Druce, John Cornish, Joey Talbot, Barry McAlistair, David? Agg and John Dempster, etc? I know Ian Watkinson is alive and well and living in the USA and David Westrap was still doing fine a few years ago. Anyone else still alive and kicking??
Hi I'm Steve Draper, in part 1 of the 1965 school photo, second from left next to Tony Clarke who is far left one row from the back. My fringe is remarkable! I attended St Mary's from 1965 I think, along with 12 others from Our Lady's primary School in Blackfen. I will name all those in my class that I can remember so if I've got the year wrong, please let me know.
I was often beaten by Peter Lawson with a plimsoll for the first 2 years when he was form master of 1 alpha. I would usually be bottom of the class of 31 of us. Happily I achieved average success from 3rd year. I think form master may then have been Fr Goonan or Murphy when he arrived in the school.
From other comments in this blog:
I remember the roof worker falling to his death. Not the last rites being administered but a huge red stain on the concrete below the geography room.
Eccles's rhyme was to memorise the Classification of igneous rocks. He drummed it into my well ...
Go See Dem Gabrielle's P.S.
My granny my sister my daughter and Dolly
Ride Over on the 'andy Batmobiles.
This gives me:
Granite Sionite Diorite Gabbro Peridotite Serpentine
Microgranite mictosionite microdiorite and dolomite
Rhyolite obsidian andesite basalt.
As you may guess I use this info on a daily basis, even now.
Names of my cohorts to come and my memories of the staff including the terrible year when loads of priests died one after the other....
Picture 1
Cross legged at front is Nick Slater from my year. Went to do medicine and told me to taste urine to check for diabetes. 2 across from him and 2 rows back in a grey shirt is Chris Doran. He was from year above me. A great thespian and son of my best teacher at the primary school. Mrs D got me through the 11+.
Cross legged 6 along is Peter Coneely, Ninth and tenth are Michael O'Dowd and Martin Harrison. 3 up from Michael in grey shirt is Alex Horvath.
Picture 2
Last 3 seated on the ground are Stephen Moss, Terry Lees and Neil Moran. 2nd adult is the caretaker, then secretary, Greelish, Porky and Eccles, Jarvis, Jewboy, Spike, Muggs. Between spike & Muggs and 2 up in grey shirt is Martin O'Keefe. He Took me to see Oh What a Lovely War at Sidcup ABC and got me smoking. He got hit by a bus on a fishing trip in the Holls in about 1968 before the O levels. RIP, Think of you often.
Picture 3
In between Muggs and Howarth and 2 behind in grey shirt I see Andy Stanley from my year. V good at football. To his right is Michael O'Malley and his left is Bernie Szabunia from Penge.
Pic 3 Hawarth Shortle and Goonan. Don't remember small bloke blinking, then Hesketh and Mr Harding (crap jaw) woodwork and took us for Engineering Drawing O & A levels. Nice bloke and perfectionist. Don't recall name of bloke in light jacket. Then Pratt, Senior Mukerjee and 'Arthur'. Mr Pratt sold his blue Lambretta Li150 to my Bro Simon for £8. Simon & I both later rode this from our 16th birthdays. Mr Mukerjee's catch phrase as far as I received it was 'you are not applying your mind!' Failed Chemistry alas.
Arthur was maths and a taught me well. Got A level ok. Then Lynch, 'Bill' Lawson and Moomin.
Steve, I was in the year below you. I remember Martin O,Keefe well as we had known each other since we were infants. Thank you for pointing him out in the photograph. As you say RIP.
St Mary's 1965
Best recall Alpha Boys
Anthiny Jozwaik
Bernard Szabunia
Miacahel Efrussy
John Ronan
John Biesmans
Gerard Sheehan
Anthony Clarke
Martin'Beefy" O'Keefe RIP
Anthony 'Tawny' Kinnon RIP
Sid Draper
Paul Hogarth arrived from Yorkshire later?
Mick Basset
Maria Gerhard Van Maurick
Andrew Stanley
David Easterbrook
Nicolas Pearson?
Pete Butler
The A Boys included
Tim Pereira
Dave Hatton
Mick Gaye
Paul ?Gasche
Baldwin twins
Nick Dawson
Nick Slater
Dave O'Dowd
Paul Higham-Garbutt?
Greg Westrap
Plus
Mick Lane, Mick Boerer. Marton Donoghue,Peatie
Do the names Chris Green, Kev Bowen and Kev White ring any bells with anyone? All would have been a part of the vintage that left in 1969.
Bowen nmaybe or I may be confusing with Rostram?
It would be good if the photos could be uploaded with higher definition .I am unable to see most of the faces, the satff are obvious but the boys all dressed alike are harder to name.
In addition to the 1965 intake some others who left around 70-72
Nigel Mattingley
Hugh Piney
Chris Reynolds
Luan Kane
Christopher Boorer
David Baldwin
Deefholts?
Steve Hague/Haig?
I think stayed on to do Oxbridge entry were Chris Goodrich , Sean Gibbs a variety of fellow smokers who would listen to Jazz, lurk in the Art room and brought the Disco to one open day so many summers ago.
I recall when the ever popular Mr Jarvis had his leaving present including the Pie,
The brae music lovers who cut through the legs of Mr Seniors Piano so that as the chapel screens opened one morning it collapsed
Found this thread quite by accident, but have read comments with interest. I came to St Mary’s in 1973 for my first teaching post (French and English) Because it was only 2 form entry some poor lads had me teach them both subjects, which meant twice almost every day. There was only one other female teacher, Patsy Sznicki (no doubt misspelt) She taught Biology and had red hair and an E-type. I remember many of the staff mentioned here, although not all still alive. I was good friends with Paul Juckes, Brian Pratt, Richard Abbotts and Tom Burns. Others I have clear memories of: Ron Hesketh, a gentleman and some kind of relation to Neville Wilkinson, Brian Mcglaughlin, crazy Geography teacher, Wrio Russell, sloany History teacher, Tony Skillen, an amazing man, John O’Mahoney, diminutive Maths teacher, Dermott McMahon who liked a drink, lovely Brian Pratt who crooned like Sinatra, Ernie Harding who always wore his tie outside his jumper (and all the boys did the same in his lessons) Rod Turner, a hard nut. For a small staff room, there were more than the usual number of eccentrics (despite these being the ones we all remember best) The priests were remarkable and enjoyed celebrating saints’ days.
On arrival they gave me a strap to practise correcting pupils on an armchair! I think I used it once. I was there for 6 years during which it was a v happy place, under Philip Graystone. I also remember one or two eccentric pupils too....
Great I recall most of those staff
McGlauchin nickname Eccles due to his ruddy topers nose and the Goon character,Mr Pratt a gem, Mr Hesketh an epicure who never grassed on us when he was in the saloon of the pub at lunch while we sneaked a cheeky half in some cheap pub
Thanks will try find more details when I get to my other home where I think I have some programmes for the plays speech dats etc.
Can someon tell me the new name , it seems to be Sy marys and st jsephs would like to write and arrange a visit when next in Europe.
Damien Farrow and some otheres were in USA last time I saw the Freonds Reunited about 6 yers ago
Surowo's post made me think..........
In my day females in the school meant the head's secretary and the dinner ladies. A female teacher with red hair and an E-type? Blimey!
I had no idea that Ron Hesketh was somehow related to Neville Wilkinson. Any further info?
Did John O'Mahoney wear a caliper on one of his legs? Did Ernie Harding teach woodwork and/or technical drawing?
I didn't know Brian Pratt could croon but then I only did art for a very brief spell and I don't imagine he sang much in lessons.
Nor did I know that Dermott McMahon liked a drink, but I believe he was given a bit of a rough time when he first came so I wouldn't blame him.
He certainly had a limp,Pomfret did indeed like a "gargle" I recall the day he threw Olim Smith the Latin masters briefcase over the fence by the bike sheds in a tiff.
As for Brian he was a jazzman a rounded man in a square job , born a decade later he'd have been a rock star Damien Hurst or Bowie !!
Happy memories
Pomfret peed all over a set of exercise books after a hosing session. He told the class he’d lost all their books!
There was another teacher, Maths I think, called Graham Field who was always reluctant to buy a round....He always turned up after we’d got them in
"I had no idea that Ron Hesketh was somehow related to Neville Wilkinson. Any further info?"
I heard that they were actually half-brothers, although where that information came from I have no idea. They certainly didn't sound like it. Ron Hesketh was a real smoothie and a very nice guy, although I didn't spend much time in his classes. Spike Wilkinson was a professional Northener, with his thick ginger beard and aggressive manner. I believe that he came from Oswaldtwistle, but his accent was very different from Ron Hesketh's. Actually, knowing Ron Hesketh, it could have been a wind-up from him, but who knows?
I very much doubt it, I think Hesketh was our favourite class with his gourmet meals, dating tips, the erotic properties of Guinness and oysters, saw him in the pub in Chislehurst. I got to know Spike after I left and he was most kind and helpful to me unlike at school where I stuggled E in French with his help Igot a B the following year at night class and ended up working for the French Gov so not ll in vain my motto
En L'Autocar les devoirs or as my badge proclaimed
In Omnibus Laborum .
I also read that Anthony Kinnon of Beckenham aka Tawny the write had died
Link to one of his works under pen name Tawny de Decyphe in honour of his very amiable and tolerant mum De Seife who I introduced to Bowie and Santana at full volume in my Beckenham era
I don't recall Spike Wilkinson being a professional Northerner at all. I recall his accent as pretty RP, if anything.
Two memories of Spike. He took the swimming group on games afternoons and we had to bring pyjama trousers so we could take them off in the water, wave them round your head to somehow fill them with air and then use them as a flotation device.
On a trip to Paris with him and Sid Kenny-Levick we would all stand and look fixedly up into the sky or at a building on a crowded street. When others stopped and did the same, we'd melt away leaving them there looking up at nothing.
Simple pleasures!
I had meant to return to read and add a few comments, but time has not been on my side. I just noticed that Kevin Tolhurst wrote a while back. I recall Kevin well. All those he mentioned I have no track of. Bernard McKenzie I have track of because his firm do my accounts, because, as a self-employed person, I prefer not to get entangled in such paperwork. A few others from his circle have cropped up: Anthony Sisley, Ted Bowden, John Cummings...but I've not found my way into reunions or pub meetings. Michael Clark has retired from Oxford & lives that way, near my son. Someone who joined 6th form just as I left, Martin Riley, came on to my horizons as he married a friend of mine. He's a writer too, theatre & TV mainly. My world is literary and art, though I had my moments with music involvements. I still mean to reread all. Whilst I'm not adverse to delving into some memories, I don't indulge, just draw on them at times, whether in my books or on Facebook notes. Facebook gives a line to me, though sooner or later a Wikipedia page will go up I understand. Hope all us St Mary's survivors have found interesting courses in our lives. And not too many have died too young.
Some years ago Helen was asking about Eric Shortle. My dad went to school with him at St Mary's College Middlesbrough. I started at St Mary's sidcup the year Eric died.
Fr Shortle was the discipline master. He was a nice man who didn't seem to enjoy caning little boys, and for that reason was an excellent choice for the job. Though short-tempered he didn't cane in anger. I speak from experience.
One of his favourite sayings was that, as a Yorkshireman, he'd often seen sheep looking over wooden gates. He'd then go on to say that he never thought he would see more stupid creatures looking at him over wood "until I walked in here and saw you lads sitting behind your desks!"
Hi just came across this blog whilst looking for some related info on St Mary's. I was there from '72 to '79 and many of the previously named subjects were still functioning, more or less, Black Harry was still the wonderful Head. I had a pretty reasonable time there having a sporting interest and doing well in the rugby! Left to study architecture and engineering, somehow getting me in to a French Oil company and touring the world as an expat for them for the last 25 years. Early retired in Cambodia with family now but would love to find some of my peers if they are still around. Sadly found this extract from another blog which summarizes all too well the life and death of the school we all "loved". Stay well all....
"St Mary’s Roman Catholic Grammar School for Boys
This is a now defunct secondary school in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Southwark. The school was opened as a result of its close educational and geographical connection to the primary school of St Joseph's Convent, the majority of boys on graduating from St Joseph's at the age of 10 or 11 attended this school, located half a mile from St Joseph's.
Built in the 1950s by the Marist Fathers as a grammar school it had an excellent academic record. The school emblem was a bee which signified industriousness. In 1982 under changing circumstances the school became co-educational changing its name to St Mary’s and St Joseph's Roman Catholic School . Academic results started falling dramatically from 1988.
The condition was so severe that by 2001 it was decided to abolish secondary education and concentrate resources as a sixth form only college, renamed St Luke's Catholic Sixth Form. [32] In 2008 the college came under the auspices of the Christ the King Sixth Form College in Lewisham. This was followed by a name change Christ the King: St Mary's.
A priest of St Lawrence's and former headmaster of St Mary's Father Philip Graystone, . passed away at Dorrington House Car Home, Wells-next-the-Sea, at 11.30 pm on Monday 15 September 2014 on the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows. He is commemorated by a plaque at St Lawrence's. He wrote a number of books on traveling and landscapes."
Okay, so I've decided to write a book about the history of St Mary's told through the eyes of former pupils and I've been busy collating the memories of many lads who were there during the 1960s and I'm indebted to Phil for this excellent blog. The idea started when I bumped into John Mattison in the unlikely setting of Blackpool, outside Bloomfield Road, after we got chatting when a match between Blackpool and Charlton (who we both follow) was called off. I am researching the school from its earliest days when it was housed next to St Lawrence's Church in the 1950s in Sidcup to when it went comprehensive in 1979 and am interested in hearing from anyone at all who attended the school. You can email me at matteastley66@yahoo.co.uk. These days I work at the BBC and have authored seven books but this will be my first that is not football-related!
Hi Surowo I think I remember you in passing. One of the sane people in a mad world. We you not there when Daphnia Wells (Wales) also a biology teacher who escaped to have a child to be replaced by a Leslie ??? Who also left to have a baby. Life has taught me that tunelling would have been a more preferable escape to parenthood.
I was at St Marys from 1962 to 1967 and remember so many of the teachers names . My form master was "thick Robinson" and he was sports master as well until Bill Lawson came along. My name is Paul Mason and I now live in East Sussex . I was not a great achiever but did well at Maths under Arthur O,Mahoney and Geography under Hesketh who was such a nice man and I remember the Sunbeam Rapier very well .
Eric Shortle was discipline master and should never had held that position as he had such fierce temper. I can remember him bellowing out "hey you fellas " when we were changing into plimsolls. However I can remember one experience on a one to one basis that he came over as the kindest helpful man who steered me in the right direction. I think he died of a heart attack later after I left.
I went on to be a successful accountant so the education was a good grounding for may career for which I am truly grateful.
If anyone remembers me please get in touch
I thought things had gone a bit quiet here, but have recently discovered that my Google settings had gone out of kilter and I wasn't getting notifications when comments were added. But it seems to be running itself quite nicely without any interference from me. As I've said before, I may not comment on other people's posts if I have nothing to add, but it is always interesting to read them.
ALPHABETTER - sorry I can't do anything about the resolution of the photos at present. I lent the original to someone and haven't got it back yet. There is a larger version on David Reddington's website, along with a 1963 version. Neither has been updated for a while and I know that some of the tags are wrong.
http://www.reddgate.co.uk/St%20MarysX.html
Matt - it was good to talk to you the other day. I am fascinated by the instant rapport that often develops between former inmates of St. Mary's, even if they are from different era's in the school's history. When two or more old boys get together, it's not long before they fall to reminiscing. I'm sure you will not be short of material for your book.
Paul - I remember you, although I was in the year below and it was the way of things that most of us didn't fraternise much with boys from other years. And when two or more 1960's-vintage old boys get together, it's not long before someone does an impersonation of Fr. Shorttle.
Thanks for the blog and pictures, Phil. I was at St Mary's from 58 to 66, in the A forms. I don't think any of the posts have been from anyone in my year and I only recognise 1 or 2 pupils' names, but I remember many of the masters. I'm sorry to hear about 'Jew boy' Miles' (what a dreadful nickname) suicide. He was good fun when he took us for 6th form biology. I also remember Messrs. Jarvis & Hesketh with fondness. Frs McIver, Shortle and Howarth were okay which Fr Mckeown rather wasn't. In my memory it was he whose penalty for being out for a duck was to run up and down the hill 50 times but I might be doing him a disservice. A good way of engendering a lifetime of enjoyment of sport!
I remember there being a good deal of physical punishment at the school, though I went through with only 4 strokes of the cane but no doubt innumerable slipperings, but I don't think it was unusual. At my Catholic primary, St Joseph's Northfleet we were punished with a piece of wood which looked like a chair leg!
About the school photos: I can only see a date on 3, where I can see myself, also 4.
On 3,next to back row, directly above Fr Shortle? (2nd to right of Mugs)
On 4, 2nd row, left of centre, between 2 boys with glasses.
Good to hear from you Chris. I'll see if I can pinpoint you in the photo. It was taken in October 1965 so I guess you would have been in the upper sixth at the time. Fr McIver was before my time but I remember everyone else you mention. Even by the standards of the day, some of the punishments meted out were excessive. I haven't encountered any St. Mary's old boys arguing that corporal punishment was beneficial.
I was at St Mary's from 71 to 78. Regarding Sorowo's comment a while back, I remember there being several female teachers apart from Sinicki. Mrs Wilkinson (Spike's missus?) taught music and the dreaded Mrs Worthington taught English and French, the worst teacher I ever experienced. There was also a Madame something who taught French but I think she'd left by 73.
Paul Mason aka "Flossy"? If so, I threw a tennis ball at you during an RE lesson and we had several lunchtime chats while having seconds of 'gypo tart'! My best wishes after 52 years JD Smith aka "Slim"!
Hi Slim I remember you and the gypo tart ! I now live in Eastbourne and enjoy retirement , I hope you are well and enjoying life I don't know if you remember Dave Kember and Gerard Morgan but both died in recent years so a reminder to enjoy life . I enjoy playing golf , walking and holidays how about you
Paul
Lovely to hear from you Paul, funny how quickly 50 years can go!
We moved from Erith to Liverpool in 1967 and after university I spent 30-odd years teaching Geography and being a Chief Examiner. Now fully retired and spend time with the grandchildren. Wrote 5 textbooks, royalties helped and I should have declared myself self-employed earlier than I actually did. My most satisfying achievements were running annual field trips to Dubai 1999-2006 and getting 100/1 about an eventual 7/1 winner. I spend considerable time and effort trying to replicate the latter via the Racing Post website and browsing blogs such as this to remember times gone by and avoid doing any domestic chores!
John D. Smith aka Slim.
Hi John sounds like you have had an interesting and rewarding life . I left without taking A levels or going to university but I did qualify as an accountant and went on to do well working at several companies and eventually doing 20 years in the pharmaceutical industry,
Although I worked mainly in the UK I did take postings in Dublin and Amsterdam , both of which I enjoyed.
My career became all consuming and I did not marry which I regret and still live alone here in Eastbourne , I too try to find winners but never 100/1 , i have the odd flutter on a Saturday and the at the big meetings watching on TV .
I remember doing well at mid distance and cross country running at St Marys and I still enjoy walking . I remember you flattening me in rugby one day as I ran down the wing and deciding rugby was not for me.
Interesting to hear you went into Geography as it was my favourite subject with Ron Hesketh . I was always good at Maths but after going into the top grade Father Shortle just confused me so I failed my O level . I had to go to night school after St Marys and who should be my teacher but Porky Smith and he was brilliant and I got the to
p grade first attempt, Good teachers can just put it over and I realised teaching itself was a skill so I take may hat off to you .
Paul flossy Mason
Well Paul, I cannot remember flattening you in rugby (I suppose an inter-house match) but our recent interactions have galvanised my ‘little grey cells’ to recall a variety of things. Somewhere on this blog is a link to a 1963 and a 1965 school photo and you and I are both clearly visible in both. You are named on the 1963 one (I am 2 to your right) and you are standing just behind Ron on the 1965 one (I am 4 to your left). If you cannot find them drop me an email to johnsmithjd@aol.com and I will forward them to you. Good luck in your quest for winners. Although I failed Maths first time around, calculating returns from winning bets improved my mental arithmetic skills no end!
JDS aka Slim
There has been a brief mention of a school trip to Paris. I went on one over Easter 1966 so shall throw in my experiences for what they are worth. We were in the charge of Spike Wilkinson, Sid Kenny-Levick, “Thick” Robinson and a lady designated “assistante” whose name now escapes me. She was a teaching assistant and native French speaker who took some classes at St. Mary’s. She was still there when I was in the fifth year in 1967-1968. Thick had left in 1964 to take up another post in Durham, so this was something of a guest appearance. We went by train from Victoria to the now-closed Folkestone Harbour station, then by ferry to Calais, train to Paris Gare du Nord and metro to Mairie des Lilas.
The trip took in all the usual tourist attractions –Eiffel Tower, Sacre Coeur, Versailles Palace etc. Nowadays there are safety railings on the top of the Arc de Triomphe which rather impede the view. But then there was only the parapet which was not much more than knee-high in places. Les Invalides was on the itinerary but a few of us got separated from the rest of the party on the way. We had been briefed on what to do in such circumstances so at the nearest Metro we each bought “un billet simple” and travelled back to the digs to await the others. We attended Mass at Notre Dame on Easter Sunday. It was of course very crowded so we had to stand throughout. My grasp of French was (and still is) quite limited so most of the lengthy sermon went in one ear and out the other. But I caught with relief the words “Et enfin…” For planned outings we all went together accompanied by the teachers. But at other times we were allowed out in small groups without supervision – no boy was supposed to be roaming Paris alone. A few of the senior boys steeped themselves in culture and paid several visits to the Paris Opera (well that’s where they said they were going) and got back long after everyone else was in bed.
I had no record of the place where we stayed, but managed to identify it after some research. I’ll make it the subject of a separate post and put a link in these comments.
Link as mentioned above https://mackiegenealogy.blogspot.com/2019/08/linstitution-segaux-aux-lilas.html
I too went on a St Mary's trip to Paris but it must have been in 1965, I think, and not over the Easter weekend. We probably stayed in the same place which I remember as being some sort of educational boarding institution.
What sticks in my mind is that rather than train and ferry we flew from Lympne in Kent to Beauvais in France with a coach trip at either end. The plane was an old Dakota (I think) with backward facing seats. It was the first time I (or indeed anyone in my family) had flown.
I can remember an assistante but maybe not the one Phil mentioned and I don't recall that she came on the trip.
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Re-read the entire blog and am in tears with laughter!
I went on a Paris trip - can't help with exactly which year. But we flew from Lympne as previously mentioned on a Skyways plane. I'd flown only once before and became somewhat anxious when I realised that Lympne boasted a grass runway which, somehow, coped with a 50 seater aircraft.
I think we stayed in an old school with open dormitories. I recall somebody sneaked in a four pack of Kronenbourg, a beverage untested previously by English teenagers in the mid sixties. Lack of refrigeration did not assist its attempts to tease our palates, but I vividly recall being in the dormitory after lights out and hearing Dec Dunne exclaim with disdain and disgust that "it tastes like piss". As our then short drinking apprenticeships had comprised warm Watneys Red Barrel, Whitbread Best Bitter, Double Diamond etc(or, in Dec's case, Guinness), the frisson arising from this illicit drinking was immedediately, and irreversibly, tempered and the remaining 3 tins discarded without further ado.
Anyone heard from Dec or know where he is?
I ask because I remember a gentle and lovely bloke but not one to cross on the rugby pitch or if you were foolish enough to be a threat to his friends.
I am particularly indebted to him for his advice and counsel during our daily walks through Sidcup Place on our way from the Church Road bus stop to school every morning. In particular, he was able to impart, patiently and sometimes incredulously, a lot of information to me - a naive youth - concerning what were then termed "the facts of life".
Those walks through the rose gardens of Sidcup Place also involved Keith Gardner - who attended the reunion we had a few years ago - and Jimmy Delaney. Jimmy lived just down the road from me and may have been, I suspect, another escapee from Jo's Jailhouse (see previously). Would be interested to hear from him.
This exercise has reminded me of all sorts of further stuff which I'll post in due course.
Hello Chris,
Good to hear from you again. Maybe it's time we had another reunion. I think Father Trueman once used the phrase "One foot in the grave and the other on a bar of soap" which gathers more meaning with each passing year.
I'm afraid I lost touch with Dec soon after we all left school. So many alliances were abruptly broken as we went to make our way in the world. But it never ceases to surprise me how after several decades apart we can just pick up again where we left off. I found Dec on the old Friends Reunited site and sent him a message but never heard back. I think Keith also tried to contact him and may have had more success.
Have you made contact with Matt Eastley (post of 7 February) who is researching the history of St. Mary's? I have met him and shared some bits of St. Mary's memorabilia. We developed an instant rapport. It seems to me that the ties that bind previous inmates don't just extend to former classmates; we have a wider shared history with those who went before us or came after. So far he has been in touch with 160+ old boys going right back to the 1930s, each with stories to tell. I'm sure he would be very pleased to hear from you. If nothing else, you would have more of a handle than I do on sporting activities. I was, to quote The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band "an odd boy who doesn't like sport". My idea of rugby was to place as much distance as possible between me and the ball.
Just a bit of trivia that occurred to me recently. Chris Warren's self-selected nickname was Otto. But didn't Pete Stickels once dub him "Uncle Ted"?
I look forward to further recollections from you and anyone else who cares to contribute. I don't always respond to posts if I have nothing to add, but I am always interested to read them.
Alphas starting in 1973
Baily
Baker
Barclay
Bonvini
Brown
Covill
Crawford
Duberry
Dyer
Etheridge
Foulds
Gillam
Gorman
Hauge
Hicks
Hughes
James
Joyce
Kennedy
Lehane
McCarthy
Manners
Milford
Pimenta
Platel
Rogan
Sefton
Stirk
Stone
Thomas
Tingle
Venn
Walsh
Wells
Rio Russell - former GB Gymnastics Coach and History Teacher was the form master
Cracking set of lads (and the A's were a good bunch) I thoroughly enjoyed life at St Mary's and even the girls turning up in 1980 when suddenly teachers using my Christian name was a shock was an experience I treasure.
Some of these are familiar. In my 5 years I recall the Wells clan (Declan, Damian etc) the Hawes family (some of the priests thought the mother fit!) the Shanahans, an accident-prone guy called Richard Lascz, the rather scary Fintan Creavan who was a policeman but now a priest I think. There was a sixth former called Anthony Pino. The very tough PE teacher was Rod Turner, and the young biology replacement was Lesley Grayson. There was also a female English teacher at the end of my time, Teresa Valelly who had left her convent and came to teach at St Mary’s and went on to marry a Muslim and live in S Arabia.
Someone mentioned a Father Trueman a while back whom I'd completely forgotten about.
I recall Fathers Shortle, Cassidy, McKeown, Goonan, Howarth and Graystone but Trueman had slipped my mind. Did he teach English at A level? If so, he taught me, but obviously didn't make much of an impression.
Does anyone recall the retreats? During those we thought and talked about religious matters and in a desperate attempt to be up to date one of the priests (and he may have been specially brought in) played the Gary Puckett and the Union Gap song "Young Girl". Females being pretty much an occasion of sin, the idea was to warn us off.
Those like Michael Brown above who attended when the school became mixed were really lucky!
Father Cyril George Trueman SM, MA (10 March 1920 - 5 January 1972)
Before coming to St. Mary's he was at St. Mary's College, Middlesbrough. http://www.stmaryscollege1.com/About-Us.html
He was chaplain at Hull in 1957
http://archive-uat.catholicherald.co.uk/article/11th-october-1957/7/university-freshers
He is buried in Chislehurst cemetery
https://billiongraves.com/grave/CYRIL-TRUEMAN/5940160
He made an appearance on the BBC Home Service in 1966
https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbchomeservice/basic/1966-10-28
He did indeed teach English and produced the school plays from 1967 to 1970. I'll throw in a few odd memories; others may care to amplify. He often used the intensifier "bally" - a more polite version of "bloody". He rather took exception to The Animal's song "It's My Life" to which he would respond "It's not your life, it's God's Life!". And he was rather fond of quoting 1 Corinthians 6:15 "Shall I take this member of Christ's body and make it the member of a harlot?" In one of his lessons we were called upon to review a TV programme and most of us selected Saturday's episode of "Till Death Us Do Part" (there were only three channels to choose from then.) He had watched it too, as he picked up on Else's rebuke to Alf "If you're Jewish you shouldn't be eating that pork chop".
He also took us for sex education, which was bolted on to RI lessons. He went briskly through the mechanics, rightly suspecting that most of us had some idea about it already. (Well we had cobble some sort of knowledge together from biology textbooks). But of course most of the emphasis was on self control. Father Goonan took our contemporaries in the alphas for sex education and was clearly most embarrassed by it. I heard that he blushed a deep red when comparing the male member to a hosepipe.
The retreats sound vaguely familiar. Wasn't there a layman who came along to tell us about married life?
This may be of interest to some of you. I was passing through Sidcup today and noticed that the building on the corner of Elm Road (which continued north from Chislehurst Road) and Sidcup High Street was being demolished. I must have passed there thousands of times but was hard put to recall what had been there. A look at Google Streetview shows it was a Blockbuster store which had stood empty for some years. But what was there before?
The former Blockbuster was a supermarket. Back in the day when they were smaller.
Hi Phil
Came across this blog by accident but it makes fascinating reading. I too was at St. Mary’s Grammar School from 1962 to 1969 so in the year above you. As someone else has commented there was little fraternising between school years so I’m afraid I don’t remember your name but thanks for all your hard work in keeping this up for so long. I’ve skipped through some of the posts so may have missed contributions from my contemporaries but did come across two posted earlier this year from Paul Mason and John (Slim) Smith. It shows what a deep impression the school made on my delicate 11 year old persona that I can still reel off by heart the register from 1 Alpha for 1962. The surnames will be right but may have missed first names;
(Tony?) Bradley
Tim Coles
John Curran
Kevin Damian
Jimmy Delaney
Martin Donovan
Martin Downy (me)
Paul Dumbleton
Ian (?) Duncan
Ken Golding
Stephen Grant
Ian Healey
John Heath
Ian Honeysett
Stephen Jones
John Lyons
? Morgan
Paul Mason
? Monk-Steele
? Pierce
? Pratt
Stephen Rawle
Chris Rice
? Rookie
? Skinner
Paul Tauber
John Twomey
John Webster
Paul Wiles
I endorse many of the comments made about the staff at the school and I always had the greatest respect for Ron Hesketh, Wilkinson, Harding Fr. Graystone and O’Neill. Ron Hesketh was the only teacher who seemed to command respect without having to resort to physical punishment as somehow you felt it would be disrespectful to offend him. I remember Jarvis and the school plays (I was Lady in waiting to Lady Macbeth one year). He did indeed have a wicked sense of humour and I remember one occasion when was looking out of a classroom window while Mr. Miles was walking across the playing field and remarking; “look at the dew out there boys, there’s miles and miles of it”.
After St. Mary’s I did a year at Norwood Tech College retaking Maths A level and doing Geology A level (with Tim Coles). From there I did a Geography degree at what was then the New University of Ulster in Coleraine, Northern Ireland. After that I took a Masters in Transport Planning and Engineering at Southampton University and that lead to a succession of jobs with various County Councils in the south of England dealing with various aspects of highways and transport. I’m now happily retired and living in West Sussex.
If any other contemporaries want to get in touch I’d be happy to hear from them. I used to be in contact with a few old boys but have lost contact over the years.
Thanks again Phil
I don't remember you Martin Downy but names you missed David skinner , Gerrard Morgan now deceased and David Kember who I heard is also sadly deceased . Gerrard was in the A stream .
Hello Paul. I’m not surprised you don’t remember me, it was 50 odd years ago that we shared the exclusive environment then known as St. Mary’s. I’m in the first photo, second row down and seven in from the right (wearing glasses). Where are you in the picture? Sorry to hear about Gerard Morgan and David Kember.
Hi Martin,
It'a good to hear from you. St. Mary's continues to exert a long reach. This entry on the blog largely runs itself and requires little interference from me.
I checked your list against some old school programmes http://mackiegenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/02/st-marys-memorabilia.html and can give some further updates. You have the right first names for Bradley and Duncan. The latter was nicknamed 'Diddy' as he was on the short side. Two of his younger brothers followed him to St. Mary's and were predictably known as 'Didddy Diddy' and 'Diddy Diddy Diddy'
It was Graham Pierce and John Monk-Steele. I sometimes travelled in with John as we both caught the 229; I came from Abbey Wood and he joined at Barnehurst. He had an older brother David.
I spotted a few where the first names recorded differ from your list, but it's always possible some boys were known by adopted rather than actual first names: Daniel Donovan, Bill Rawle, Christopher Tauber, Gerald Twomey. I can't find anything for Pratt or Rookie.
Seeing your photo I do now remember you . On the names front do you remember Felix Kopczyk . We all learnt how to spell his name as every new master used to ask and we'd sing out KOPCZYK. As you say it was 50 years ago now
Paul - yes I do remember the name Felix Kopczyk. I seem to remember there were quite a few Polish names In the school. I always assumed they were the offspring of Polish refugees during the war but it gave us good practice at how to pronounce Eastern European names.
Phil - thanks for the update on the names. I’ll have to look at those old school programmes. Correction, it was Rooke, not Rookie. There was definitely a Pratt in the year because I can remember one of the teachers (possibly Jarvis or Wilkinson) coming out with the inevitable insult: “Pratt by name .......”.
Martin - are you sure your list of what you say is the alpha stream is accurate? I'd have thought some of those boys are "a" stream and the reason Paul Mason doesn't remember you is that he was in the alpha stream and you the "a".
Happy to be corrected, but if your list of the alphas is accurate can you recall who were the "a"s is the autumn of 1962?
Do you remember Bernard Fisher, Terry Gamble, Peter Maudsley or Paul Hogarth, for example? Is it possible that at the end of the first year there was a shift from "a" to alpha and vice-versa?
Nice to read about you Martin, a long time since we used to play football on the playground using just a small tennis ball! I was the Porter in Macbeth and that was my sole claim to acting fame. The only fellow traveller on the 229 from Bexleyheath Clock Tower I can recall was Philip Burnell but that might be an age thing. Glad you are still going strong!
I wasn’t teaching there the, but the Pratt you mention was almost certainly Nick or Justin,sons of my much missed colleague Brian Pratt, teacher of Art
Anonymous - I’m absolutely certain that the list I’ve posted is for 1 Alpha from school year 1962/63. As I said, it must have made a big impression on me hearing that same register called every day during my first year. Being the first year we weren’t graded by exam results of course so it should have been a random allocation as to whether we were in 1 A or 1 Alpha unless there was some grading done from 11 Plus results which we never knew about. As to who was in 1A that year I do recognise the names you’ve listed and would add Philip Burnell (mentioned by John Smith), Nigel Greenard, John Pelican, Michael Reilly, Neil Welsh, David Philipson, Tony Ring, Sean Gibbs, Dennis Woodgate and someone whose name escapes me but who had the nickname Top Dog - very tall and skinny and useful to have on your team at basketball! Phil has mentioned the archives held by the London Borough of Bexley which has the school admissions but these are restricted and not visible online.
A few other random memories; seeing the caretaker erecting some primitive ladder/planks construction at the top of the main stairwell to put up a crucifix or picture (no health and safety in sight). The same caretaker a couple of times a year going out onto the flat roof of the main entrance block and throwing down all the balls that had ended up there from the playground below. I think I was responsible for a few of those as I acquired a reputation for being able to throw a ball right over that part of the school (most times). Getting the cane from Yorkie when a group of us had constructed a home made periscope which we used to spy on the staff room window from the path which ran below it. Needless to say we were spotted and Yorkie’s comment when he lined us up was; “curiosity killed the cat now I’m going to kill you”. Nowadays you would probably be praised for your ingenuity.
The winter of that first year was the big freeze of 1962/63 which lasted from Christmas 1962 to March 1963. More than once the buses didn’t run and we had to walk at least as far as Chislehurst if not all the way back to Petts Wood. It was possible to walk on the ponds at Chislehurst Common for most of that time. At the school we created a slide on the compacted snow which gradually grew until it extended over half the length of the playground - until said caretaker came out with a bucket of salt and ended the fun.
School plays were enjoyable whether acting or behind the scenes as it meant you got to be in the school at times when the rest of the pupils were not around (during rehearsals and matinees) and more or less had the run of the place. The staff who were around were also far more relaxed in those circumstances. That’s enough of a diversion down memory lane for now.
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